Ordering M10-R from UK to US: Import Duties?

[NigelG]

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From the Federal Register...

Section 9002.11.90 is the relevant code

(I was only talking about lenses not cameras)

 

 

 

Part 11—Products of Germany described below are subject to additional import duties of 25 percent ad valorem:

Expand Table

HTS subheading	Product description
0901.21.00	Coffee, roasted, not decaffeinated.
0901.22.00	Coffee, roasted, decaffeinated.
2101.11.21	Instant coffee, not flavored.
8201.40.60	Axes, bill hooks and similar hewing tools (o/than machetes), and base metal parts thereof.
8203.20.20	Base metal tweezers.
8203.20.60	Pliers (including cutting pliers but not slip joint pliers), pincers and similar tools.
8203.30.00	Metal cutting shears and similar tools, and base metal parts thereof.
8203.40.60	Pipe cutters, bolt cutters, perforating punches and similar tools, nesoi, and base metal parts thereof.
8205.40.00	Screwdrivers and base metal parts thereof.
8211.94.50	Base metal blades for knives having other than fixed blades.
8467.19.10	Tools for working in the hand, pneumatic, other than rotary type, suitable for metal working.
8467.19.50	Tools for working in the hand, pneumatic, other than rotary type, other than suitable for metal working.
8468.80.10	Machinery and apparatus, hand-directed or -controlled, used for soldering, brazing or welding, not gas-operated.
8468.90.10	Parts of hand-directed or -controlled machinery, apparatus and appliances used for soldering, brazing, welding or tempering.
8514.20.40	Industrial or laboratory microwave ovens for making hot drinks or for cooking or heating food.
9002.11.90	Objective lenses and parts & access. thereof, for cameras, projectors, or photographic enlargers or reducers, except projection, nesoi.
9013.10.10	Telescopic sights for rifles not designed for use with infrared light.

 

[NigelG]

I’ve been through this myself before - don’t want you to get caught out with a post-delivery demand from DHL

I hadn’t appreciated it applies to used goods too AFAIK

Edited October 8, 2020 by NigelG
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[andybarton]

55 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

 I figured the price in the UK MINUS VAT at approx £3900 which is 5000+ USD.  The Price at Leica UK is £4500.

You are way off there, I am afraid.

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£7,100 includes VAT at 20%, so the ex-VAT price (which is what people outside the EU pay) is £5,917, plus shipping, insurance and duty/tariff. 

As I said before, what will happen after 31/12 is anyone's guess.

 

 

[andybarton]

55 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes, Leica USA will regard it as grey import and not extend warranty. However Leica Wetlzar will give full factory warranty.

Which means that if the camera ever does need warranty work, it will need to be shipped to Germany at the owner's expense, which will inevitably be more costly in $ and days than shipping to NJ.

The saving in purchase price, given the lottery of the import duty, could easily be lost if it needs warranty work. Plus, of course, there's the "support your local dealer and his mortgage and kids in these troubled times" argument.

[robsonj]

If do end up ordering in the US, order from a smaller authorized camera dealer out of your state (I think popflash still has a silver chrome in stock as of this morning) so you can 'defer' the sales tax.

[eyeheartny]

15 minutes ago, NigelG said:

From the Federal Register...

Section 9002.11.90 is the relevant code

(I was only talking about lenses not cameras)

 

 

 

Part 11—Products of Germany described below are subject to additional import duties of 25 percent ad valorem:

 

 

 

Correct. And if you can get the dealer to code your order as 9002.19.00.00 (which is a Lens - Other) it will be exempt from that according to the Federal Register. That's my whole point. I'm not asking them to code a lens as a lawnmower, just as a Lens - Other, which is then exempt. If they'll do it, there are huge savings to be had. 

[andybarton]

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6 minutes ago, eyeheartny said:

And if you can get the dealer to code your order as 9002.19.00.00 (which is a Lens - Other)

Are you not expecting the European dealer to break the law just so that you can avoid paying import duty?

[jaapv]

The legal question being: Other than what? I would suggest this applies to lenses used for X-ray equipment, astro-telescopes and similar non-photographic use.

[eyeheartny]

31 minutes ago, andybarton said:

Are you not expecting the European dealer to break the law just so that you can avoid paying import duty?

Absolutely not. The tariff codes are incredibly vague and unclear. 9002.11.90 is classified as "Other" under the camera lenses section and is subject to the 25% tariff, whereas 9002.11.00 is also coded as "Other" under the exact same section and is exempt from the tariff. There is no descriptive information regarding which "Other" applies to the camera lens, and so I'm entirely within reason to apply one "Other" versus another given no other identifying information in the code. 

[eyeheartny]

35 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The legal question being: Other than what? I would suggest this applies to lenses used for X-ray equipment, astro-telescopes and similar non-photographic use.

Not at all. Both codes are classified as "Other" if you look at the actual HTS document. There are two "Other" codes and one has the 25% and the other does not, both within the section for Objective lenses for cameras. 

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[jaapv]

Yes - "other" being: "not listed in the other sections". That is completely clear. Say: a lens meant for an artillery rangefinder, for instance.

[jwr50]

Correctly reading the Harmonized Tariff Code is an art form in itself.  I just imported via FedEx a Hasselblad film camera, prism viewfinder and a lens from Japan.  The first $1,600 (or is it $2,000?) in value are, I believe, duty free.  Beyond that, the duty rate on the prism viewfinder was 5.8% and the duty rate on the lens was 2.3%.  Not sure what the duty rate on a digital camera would be, but a call to FedEx Int'l, DHL, or your local customs broker could probably get you a clearer response on that.  (And, trust me, you don't want to ask the seller to misrepresent the contents of the shipment on the customs declaration.)

[NigelG]

7 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes - "other" being: not listed in the other sections. That is completely clear.

Exactly.

9002.XX.XX is lenses,prisms mirrors etc.

9002.11.XX is lenses for cameras etc.

.40 = projection

.60 = CCTV etc

.90 = other ie other lenses for cameras,projectors,enlargers etc.

 

9002.19.00 is for other lenses ie lenses that are NOT included in 9002.11.XX

Edited October 8, 2020 by NigelG

[Stuart Richardson]

My experience is that the customs laws are extremely complicated and loosely enforced or understood for small parcels. You are more or less at the mercy of the people doing the customs clearing. I never really had any duties ordering from Europe when I was living in the states, but now that I live in Iceland, I am dealing with it a lot for my business. Basically, it depends on the person doing the filing. Someone at DHL is general not going to drill down into the minutia of the customs laws to find the least onerous tariff. They are doing to do the easiest thing.

Sometimes you can get it changed. I ordered a wide format inkjet printer for my business, and at the time Iceland had a big tariff for home electronics. The customs person at the shipping company declared it that way and I was hit with a huge bill. But after speaking with them and informing them that it was not a consumer printer, but a commercial one for my business, they filed it under a different category for business machines, and it was tariff free (not VAT though, lol).

Edited October 8, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[Mikep996]

Maybe I'm wrong but I would not rely on a shipper to know anything at all about customs charges.  All they do is ship the item.  I don't see why they would have any interest at all in the customs charges.  It has no effect on their operation; it's between the seller/customs/the buyer.

Re my earlier:

   2 hours ago,  Mikep996 said: 

 I figured the price in the UK MINUS VAT at approx £3900 which is 5000+ USD.  The Price at Leica UK is £4500.

You are way off there, I am afraid.

 

YES! absolutely right - I was looking at Q2s and somehow used that price info in this discussion about Ms- SORRY!

[eyeheartny]

8 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

My experience is that the customs laws are extremely complicated and loosely enforced or understood for small parcels. You are more or less at the mercy of the people doing the customs clearing. I never really had any duties ordering from Europe when I was living in the states, but now that I live in Iceland, I am dealing with it a lot for my business. Basically, it depends on the person doing the filing. Someone at DHL is general not going to drill down into the minutia of the customs laws to find the least onerous tariff. They are doing to do the easiest thing.

Sometimes you can get it changed. I ordered a wide format inkjet printer for my business, and at the time Iceland had a big tariff for home electronics. The customs person at the shipping company declared it that way and I was hit with a huge bill. But after speaking with them and informing them that it was not a consumer printer, but a commercial one for my business, they filed it under a different category for business machines, and it was tariff free (not VAT though, lol).

Yeah, I am aware that it can be changed. I've had that happen before with UPS. DHL told me today they assess a $90 fee for changing the codes on an order if it wasn't DHL's error. 

[eyeheartny]

34 minutes ago, jwr50 said:

Correctly reading the Harmonized Tariff Code is an art form in itself.  I just imported via FedEx a Hasselblad film camera, prism viewfinder and a lens from Japan.  The first $1,600 (or is it $2,000?) in value are, I believe, duty free.  Beyond that, the duty rate on the prism viewfinder was 5.8% and the duty rate on the lens was 2.3%.  Not sure what the duty rate on a digital camera would be, but a call to FedEx Int'l, DHL, or your local customs broker could probably get you a clearer response on that.  (And, trust me, you don't want to ask the seller to misrepresent the contents of the shipment on the customs declaration.)

I didn't realize that it only applied above a certain threshold. I spoke with DHL today and they confirmed that the camera body itself is not subject to duties and exempt from the 25% surcharge for German goods. I've confirmed that with careful reading of the HTS documents and the supplementary The lenses are a different story and not at all clear whether they'll actually be subject to the 25% surcharge in actual practice. 

[Stuart Richardson]

A lot of it also depends on how the companies declare it. I have ordered film and photo supplies from the states and places like Freestyle would usually just list something like "photographic supplies", and it would all go in without tariff. There is a 7% tariff on film, so you would often not pay the tariff on the film if they declared it as a generic, "photographic supplies". B&H tends to print the code for each individual item, as they are highly automated in their inventory and used to shipping all over the world, so when DHL clears them you get charged accurately for every item. They are on top of it enough that they actually offer you to pay in advance for clearing and VAT, so the order is not stopped at all at the border by DHL. The only problem for this as a business is that you cannot reclaim the VAT if you do that, as under the law, you technically cannot recover the VAT because you did not pay it. You paid B&H to pay it. Amazon and eBay do this now too, and it is a nightmare if you are a small business. It makes it easier for consumers, but as a business it means you have a 25% tax you cannot recoup. The first time I tried to recover an invoice like this and had it rejected I was so angry. It is such a scam. I lost several hundred dollars just because an eBay seller gave me no other option than the global shipping program where the fees are assessed in advance, and the government would not budge on repayment...

Edited October 8, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, eyeheartny said:

 

Correct. And if you can get the dealer to code your order as 9002.19.00.00 (which is a Lens - Other) it will be exempt from that according to the Federal Register. That's my whole point. I'm not asking them to code a lens as a lawnmower, just as a Lens - Other, which is then exempt. If they'll do it, there are huge savings to be had. 

18 U.S. C. # 371. “Conspiracy to defraud the United States” You  must like orange jumpsuits. 

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[jaapv]

5 hours ago, eyeheartny said:

 

Correct. And if you can get the dealer to code your order as 9002.19.00.00 (which is a Lens - Other) it will be exempt from that according to the Federal Register. That's my whole point. I'm not asking them to code a lens as a lawnmower, just as a Lens - Other, which is then exempt. If they'll do it, there are huge savings to be had. 

No - you are misreading this; a Leica lens is a lens-camera. Thus it is not a lens-other.
If you ask the dealer to code it differently and you get caught you are in legal trouble -and so would the shop be for acceding to an illegal request.

You are not allowed to make further posts in this vein as you are using the forum to advocate an illegal action.