New to Leica, should I go for M3, M4 or M5?

[Pyrogallol]

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I agree with the suggestions made. If you can it would be ideal to handle and look through the models you are considering. My first Leica in the 1970’s was an M3. Now  I have M2, M4 and M4P models. Any of those would be good if you can find one in good working condition. I would be a bit wary of an M5 as I think they are more difficult to get serviced, especially the meter, but that will depend on where you are and who you can get to service it. If you only intend having one Leica and enjoy using lenses at the wide end of the scale the M4P has the widest field of view and the M3 the longest, though you can always add auxiliary viewfinders on top but they do spoil the shape of the camera and in my experience catch up in the camera bag and want to slide off !

 

If you want to experience the true Leica feel, buy a 1930’s screw model with a 50mm f3.5 Elmar lens, cheaper than an M camera.

[colint544]

The differences between the various Leitz era M cameras are - with the exception of the M5 - tiny. Condition is the most important thing.

Over the years I've been fortunate to have been able to collect an M2, an M4, and an M5. I use all of them, and fairly regularly. I honestly can't pick a favourite.

The M5, incidentally, is a brilliant camera. You can see the thought that the designers put into it. It was the last time Leica attempted to make the M compete with Canon and Nikon, and they threw everything they had into the design. They badly needed the M5 to be good. The rewind mechanism is near genius, it's the fastest on any M camera, and there's even a ratchet to prevent it from turning the wrong way. Shutter speed dial is the best thought-out and easiest to use. Every control on the M5 seems to be in the right place. The strap lugs are so over-engineered you could hang a small car from them. You can't wear them through like you can on other M cameras.

Whatever you pick, just make sure it's running smoothly. You're almost better to get a camera that's seen some use, than one which is pristine, but has been sat in a drawer for 20 years. Get a good Leica M of any type, and you really can't go far wrong.

Edited August 16, 2020 by colint544

[andrew01]

I don’t have an M5 but it’s on my radar to try.  They certainly won’t win any beauty contests, but owners seem to love them.  They seem to be the cheapest option of your shortlist: 600-800 Euro for a nice one from a reputable dealer.

I own an M3 and an M6 and my M3 is my favourite.   The build quality is noticeably nicer, and the mechanics are noticeably smoother.  The viewfinder is sensational if you like shooting 50mm, which I do.  I don’t own M2 or M4 but from all accounts the build quality is just as good as M3 standards.  The M3 is the most iconic Leica, and I appreciate using cameras of historical significance.

I think your short list is a good one, whatever you choose you will get a great camera.  However if you start with an M4 or 5, in the back of your mind you will always be thinking how cool it would be to shoot with an M3.  

[plaidshirts]

You won't really know which is best for you until you've tried them all yourself.

I've had the good fortune to possess all three M's you mentioned. Currently, of those three, only the M3 is still with me.

The M4 I eventually sold because I liked the aesthetics of the button rewind M2 better. The M5 left, to be replaced by an M6 and eventually an M6 TTL.

They are all fine machines, attested by all the "I Love..." thread for each of those models in this forum.

By the way, I bought a 50/2 Rigid with my M3 and they make a pretty good combo.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I would have said the M2 was my favorite, owned 2 for 30+ years. Sold them when I thought I was committing to digital. That didn't last long, I now have an M3 with an M4 viewfinder, really like it. Has 35mm which is my favorite focal length. The M3 I received had been in a box in an attic for 25 years or so and needed major shutter work, the price was right so the repair was a no brainer. The M3 is a 1957 model with the old shutter speeds, so that takes a bit to get used to, it also had a "quick load" which I never got the hang of so replaced that with a standard spool, just what I was used to.

[earleygallery]

On 8/16/2020 at 7:16 AM, Eric727 said:

Hi, I’m new here. I am using Canon DSLR and Nikon F3P film camera. I understand that a Leica camera won’t make me a better photographer, but I like the feel after tested the Leica camera at Leica store, and I love the experience of controlling light by myself. I started from DSLR then move to film, my F3 explore my vision of “how to exposure work”, but relying very minimum of the electronic parts inside my F3 (basically just a light meter).

With all the reasons (maybe excuses), I am decided to become one of the Leica member. Last week, I saw a good deal of 50mm f2 rigid, and my finger acted to quickly and accidentally make up the purchase, now it on the way. 
I hope I can have some of your suggestions here to help me to pick my first Leica to start my Leica journey.
 

Currently, I am considering M3, M4 and M5. Based on my search on the web, M3 is legendary camera, M4 is more modern, M5 is cheap & bulky.

is there anyone who used or owned these camera and probably can give some advise to me?

I planned to get one film Leica only, afterwards, I will invest into digital Leica.
 

Thank you very much.

So we know you don't need / want a meter but we don't know what you have to spend which is another issue.

You could buy a new M-A if money isn't an issue, or any of M2, M3, M4, M4-2, M4-P (the meterless options).

The M3 has a higher magnification and frame lines for 50/90/135mm lenses. I personally didn't enjoy the M3, but I do like my M2. The M3 has very broad and rounded frame lines - a minor point perhaps but they just annoyed me!

There are also some minor handling differences between the various models - film loading, film advance levers and rewind knobs in particular. However, buying a used camera, I would suggest lookng for the best you can find for what you want to spend and being new to Leica I advise you to buy from a dealer who will provide a warranty on their used gear.  

[Eric727]

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On 8/16/2020 at 7:33 PM, Matlock said:

Reading your comments I would have a look at a M4-P, but in the end only you can decide, see if you can have a look at one.

Thanks Matlock, I will try to look more from eBay.

[ktmrider2]

I am not sure I would buy any camera from eBay.  Most reputable dealers may charge a bit more but have a 30 day (or longer) return policy.  I have had outstanding service dealing with Tamarkin in Chicago or ClassicConnection in New Jersey.  You might also check out KEH or Igor's Camera which I hear good things about.  If you just call Tamarkin or ClassicConnection it is amazing what the staff will tell you about Leicas and what they have in stock at the moment.

[Jeff S]

39 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

I am not sure I would buy any camera from eBay.  Most reputable dealers may charge a bit more but have a 30 day (or longer) return policy.  I have had outstanding service dealing with Tamarkin in Chicago or ClassicConnection in New Jersey.  You might also check out KEH or Igor's Camera which I hear good things about.  If you just call Tamarkin or ClassicConnection it is amazing what the staff will tell you about Leicas and what they have in stock at the moment.

Agree, but with the exception that some reputable dealers (Popflash, etc) maintain an eBay site in addition to their retail site.  Even then, however, I prefer to deal directly with the staff for personal service and to get a better price (eBay prices are often raised to cover fees).  But It’s better as a seller if a consigned item sells off their eBay site, rather than their retail site, due to the higher price.

Jeff

[jaques]

as for me- I much prefer the feel of my m3's than I ever did the m5. Sold the one I did have briefly.  The M3 is a design classic- a type of perfection wheras the M5 (whilst perfectly capable)- is an ugly duckling. Then there is always the Konica Hexar RF. That's a fine camera indeed.

[Ko.Fe.]

Is OP still around?  

M5 major disadvantage for RF user with traditional manners is too far away placement of VF/RF from the edge of the camera. This is the only reason I won't get M5.

M3 to M4 choice is no brainier. Want to stick with 50mm lens - M3. M4 is very accurate framing for 35mm lens. And so are M2 and M4-2. 

[oldwino]

M3 is pretty restrictive in that only 50-90mm lenses work without accessories adding to the weight of the lenses. And, who doesn’t want to shoot a 35mm lens on a Leica? 
M5 is great in so many ways, but I was never able to get comfortable with mine. I reminded me, oddly enough, of my Nikon F2. 
M4 or M2 is the way to go - M4 will feel a little closer to your Nikon (loading film, rewind, etc). M2 will be a little for like stepping into the past. Both are great. 

[105012]

M3 does 50mm, 90mm and 135mm best of all Leica's.

On the 35mm I quote some random guy "The 35 is splendid when needed, but extremely difficult to use if you want precision in composition. There are too many elements, and something is always in the wrong place. It is a beautiful lens at times when needed by what you see. But very often it is used by people who want to shout. Because you have a distortion, you have somebody in the foreground and it gives an effect. But I don’t like effects. There is something aggressive, and I don’t like that. Because when you shout, it is usually because you are short of arguments."

[250swb]

15 hours ago, 105012 said:

M3 does 50mm, 90mm and 135mm best of all Leica's.

On the 35mm I quote some random guy "The 35 is splendid when needed, but extremely difficult to use if you want precision in composition. There are too many elements, and something is always in the wrong place. It is a beautiful lens at times when needed by what you see. But very often it is used by people who want to shout. Because you have a distortion, you have somebody in the foreground and it gives an effect. But I don’t like effects. There is something aggressive, and I don’t like that. Because when you shout, it is usually because you are short of arguments."

At least take an interest and ask the OP what lenses they want to use and then make a personal preference. One persons dogma is selfish if it doesn't match what the OP is fumbling to understand as a newbie. 

[TomB_tx]

I've had an M4 since 1968, when I could have bought a new M3 at the same price. I actually prefer the 50mm frame of the M4 to the M3 - I wear glasses and that does affect seeing to the edges of the VF. The M4 VF also made me appreciate the 35mm focal length, while with SLRs I always preferred longer lenses. Now on the M10 I use 35mm almost all the time.

I've also used M6 since 1985. In the last 11 years I've added M2, M3DS, M3SS, and M5. M3 is actually my least favorite of these. The M5 is about the nicest to shoot, and I prefer it's spot meter. 

Don't worry about the choice: All are great cameras. Just pick one, buy it, use it, and bond with it.

[105012]

8 hours ago, 250swb said:

At least take an interest and ask the OP what lenses they want to use and then make a personal preference. One persons dogma is selfish if it doesn't match what the OP is fumbling to understand as a newbie. 

You may not have noticed, but the OP has already said they have purchased a 50mm, therefore it is reasonable to deduce that my contribution was potentially helpful to the OP.

[250swb]

2 hours ago, 105012 said:

You may not have noticed, but the OP has already said they have purchased a 50mm, therefore it is reasonable to deduce that my contribution was potentially helpful to the OP.

Everybody starts with a 50mm. What would you say if the OP had asked 'ok I've read the manual, what now?', recommend War and Peace? 

It's a serious problem and I think a little empathy for the direction of travel is more important than to focus on where they are starting from.

[iphoenix]

I don't think this has been mentioned, but if you like to shoot with both eyes open (to see what's going on out of the finder's view), the M3 with its' .91 finder is the one. Otherwise an M4 (.72) is the one. Of course, all things being equal.

[Pyrogallol]

7 hours ago, iphoenix said:

I don't think this has been mentioned, but if you like to shoot with both eyes open (to see what's going on out of the finder's view), the M3 with its' .91 finder is the one. Otherwise an M4 (.72) is the one. Of course, all things being equal.

Doesn’t work if you are left-eyed, your right eye is looking at the back of the camera !

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

As left-eye user then later right-eye user, I rely on SBOOI 😉 for two-eye-open-M-use-with-50.

Before that I didn't use aux. VF, but when one day I look in one SBOOI, I understood much better.