Sigma fp – World's smallest & lightest mirrorless full frame camera

[onca]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 16 Minuten schrieb caissa:

What is Sigmas strategy ?

... for things like  this.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[bags27]

As always, Ming Thein has interesting things to say

https://blog.mingthein.com/2019/07/22/modularity/#more-18745

[LocalHero1953]

The more I think about this, the more interesting I find it, on several levels.

On a general level, it shows how the larger market offered by a semi-open standard of lens mount has encouraged makers to develop bodies that are 'different', to fill different niches - the R&D in lenses and mounts is already a sunk cost, so why not innovate in the body? I look forward to seeing what else comes out of left field, like this one for the video sector. Perhaps an L-mount social media connected body addressing the same market as Zeiss is trying with the ZX1 (will we ever see that one)?

I can see this being of value to pros in the wedding/event/performance sector, where video is in increasing demand alongside stills. A body on a tripod to run alongside your SL/S1, taking the same lenses, and recording at a form factor that could allow you compatible still outtakes. It could be attractive. As an amateur I am doing more theatre and musical performance still photography and have wondered for a while about trying video. This could make it easy.

There are obvious questions still to be answered: performance in practice, and price for a start. The Blackmagic Pocket 4k, perhaps its target competitor, is around £1000. Another unanswered question is whether it will retain the 30 minute limit on internal recording. In practice, internal recording at FF is likely to be limited anyway by storage capacity, but it would be nice to know that a quick and dirty video could be shot without this archaism.

[scott kirkpatrick]

55 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The more I think about this, the more interesting I find it, on several levels.....

There are obvious questions still to be answered: ....  whether it will retain the 30 minute limit on internal recording. In practice, internal recording at FF is likely to be limited anyway by storage capacity, but it would be nice to know that a quick and dirty video could be shot without this archaism.

The 30 min limit seems to be going away, as it was the result of a decades-old customs charge that may not be in effect any more.  The limits that are left are technological.  SD cards use a FAT file system that cannot handle files with more than 4 GB in them  So when you record to an SD card, the video is broken up into 4GB chunks, but these can be reassembled as successive shots in any editor and you won't see any gaps.  Recording 4K at highest quality (200 Mbps 4:2:0 8 bit for starters) inside the camera to a faster card, such as MQD, the 4GB limit goes away, but my S1R manual says that it will stop recording at 15 minutes.  That's probably to stop heat buildup.  The 48MPX sensor in the S1R is overkill.  There must be quite a bit of unnecessary work going into reducing 30 or 60 frames per second to the output required.  But 200 Mbps is 1.5 GB every minute, so 15 minutes could well generate a 20+ GB file.  More relevant for covering events would be full UHD data streams, at 20 Mbps.  An hour of this quality would require a few GB.

The S1's video software upgrade and the promised S1H, both due this year, should show where these limits in consumer gear are going.  When the SL was new, Leica made an effort to stress its video capability (including fast fixes to some embarrassing oversights in its firmware).  Let's hope that an SL2 will make further steps along this path, but that's not addressing the "quick and dirty" part of your request.

Edited August 9, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[Guest JMF]

7 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

The 30 min limit seems to be going away, as it was the result of a decades-old customs charge that may not be in effect any more.  The limits that are left are technological.  SD cards use a FAT file system that cannot handle files with more than 4 GB in them  So when you record to an SD card, the video is broken up into 4GB chunks, but these can be reassembled as successive shots in any editor and you won't see any gaps.  Recording 4K at highest quality (200 Mbps 4:2:0 8 bit for starters) inside the camera to a faster card, such as MQD, the 4GB limit goes away, but my S1R manual says that it will stop recording at 15 minutes.  That's probably to stop heat buildup.  The 48MPX sensor in the S1R is overkill.  There must be quite a bit of unnecessary work going into reducing 30 or 60 frames per second to the output required.  But 200 Mbps is 1.5 GB every minute, so 15 minutes could well generate a 20+ GB file.  More relevant for covering events would be full UHD data streams, at 20 Mbps.  An hour of this quality would require a few GB.

The S1's video software upgrade and the promised S1H, both due this year, should show where these limits in consumer gear are going.  When the SL was new, Leica made an effort to stress its video capability (including fast fixes to some embarrassing oversights in its firmware).  Let's hope that an SL2 will make further steps along this path, but that's not addressing the "quick and dirty" part of your request.

Scott, do you have a UK version of the S1R or  the US version  ? 

Meaning to ask the following:

Can a US version S1 or S1R camera (bought in the USA)  shoot all these frame rates 24/25/30/50/60/100/120/150/180 fps or is it limited to 24/30/60/120/180 fps ?

[scott kirkpatrick]

I got mine from B&H, so I guess it is US, but the firmware should be international.  Nonetheless, I see 24, 30, 60 in MP4 4K, and not 25 or 50.

[LocalHero1953]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A new review of the fp, a bit more in depth than those from the first announcement. Still looks interesting to me, for video with L lenses. No log shooting though (yet). Price "under $3000" but not clear how far under.

Edit: I see that the fp was on view at IBC 2019 in Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago which has given rise to a number of other reviews - still nothing on real world performance and price.

Edited September 28, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[verwackelt]

Hmmm... 3000$ plus additional equipm. to make a stillcamera may be too much for the saturated market today.
at the end of the day a photographer has to pay the same as for a S1R.
But perhaps the movieguys will like the FP…

[LocalHero1953]

I agree - I think this will hardly make a ripple in the still camera market, but there aren't too many direct competitors (FF, small size, raw footage, lots of lens options) in the video market.

[V23]

On 7/11/2019 at 11:47 PM, gippo said:

no viewfinder! it's not for me, too bad!

 

[V23]

Just now, V23 said:

 

no viewfinder, no problem for me!

[nicci78]

Are you interested into a 1,899$ fp ? Price leaked into Sigma website html code. 

• L-mount
• no EVF
• no mechanical shutter, only electronic
• flash sync at 1/30th second only
• optional grip
• optional hot shoe adapter
• same battery as DP Quattro, Leica Q/CL and several Panasonic such as GX8 
• smaller than CL 
• still/movie hybrid camera

It will be also available in kit with the 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by nicci78

[helged]

22 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Are you interested into a 1,899$ fp ? Price leaked into Sigma website html code... 

Not for me, but the FF Foveon - to be launched in 2020 - will be (very) interesting... 

[tom.w.bn]

Am 8.10.2019 um 10:10 schrieb nicci78:

 

 

Are you interested into a 1,899$ fp ? Price leaked into Sigma website html code. 

• L-mount
• no EVF
• no mechanical shutter, only electronic
• flash sync at 1/30th second only
• optional grip
• optional hot shoe adapter
• same battery as DP Quattro, Leica Q/CL and several Panasonic such as GX8 
• smaller than CL 
• still/movie hybrid camera

It will be also available in kit with the 45mm f/2.8 DG DN Contemporary

 

 

No EVF and no tiltable screen is a problem for me and I'm still not confident, that electronic shutter alone is a good choice for photos.

Edited October 9, 2019 by tom.w.bn

[Viv]

No viewfinder, so include me out.

[Stuart Richardson]

It is interesting, but not for me. At least not at the moment. It seems to be most attractive to videographers. For photographer, the lack of VF, grip for handling, and the very large lenses in the SL system seem like using it for photography is a secondary consideration. I am also curious if we will see rolling shutter distortion in fast moving stills, given that the electronic shutter's flash sync is 1/30th of a second. Doesn't that imply that it takes 1/30th of a second to readout the whole sensor? If so, I can see an effect happening like the Jacques Henri-Lartigue photo of the race car... https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/283256

[LocalHero1953]

I've put in a preorder, with B&H - even with shipping & taxes it saves £200 over the UK price.

I will use it mainly for video (I'm a very early novice videographer), where the L-mount makes it very attractive to use in tandem with the SL for stills and video.

As a still camera it is a close match in size and features with my TL2, which I bought as a small back up (and social camera) to my CL. In fact they are so close, that I think the TL2 will have to go (I don't keep cameras I don't use - it keeps my in-house finance director onside). It will be nice to have a tiny, if less ergonomic, full frame backup for travel.

Edited October 19, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[verwackelt]

Please do a review here when done the first days of shooting…

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LocalHero1953]

AdamdeWilde has his hands on one in Singapore and is posting his experience on the FM forum. I've been told mine will ship from B&H on 31st.

[Athornton]

They have started shipping in the UK - mine arrived yesterday and initial impressions are good. The optional viewfinder/rear LCD magnifier is a very positive surprise and the small handgrip probably a necessity for stills. 

This is my first Sigma camera and the interface is not yet familiar, but key controls seem logical and accessible. Make sure those CL batteries are fully charged and ready to go for when your camera arrives.

Weather is poor (why does that always happen when a new camera arrives?) but can’t wait to get out to shoot the autumn colours once the sun appears.

Adam’s comments resonate based on my experience to date and I think many of those with a commitment to the L Mount system will pick one up to slip in the camera bag as a second small body or to pack for travel.

 

Andrew