IIIF lenses?

[Dotty]

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Hello!

i just purchased a Leica IIIF and would like to know what choices are out there when it comes to lenses to enhance it.

Also I‘d appreciate information about this model ( view attached pics ).

https://myalbum.com/album/xn3DXa4b4QIm

most grateful !

Dotty.

[Susie]

Hi Dotty, 

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the purchase of your first Barnac camera.  Going by the serial number it looks as if it is a 111c of 1949 that was factory converted to a black-dial 111f.

The classic lens trinity for this would be the 5cm-f/3.5 Elmar, the 3.5cm-f/3.5 Summaron (or the earlier Elmar) and the 9 cm-f/4 Elmar.  With these three, and perhaps a 13.5cm-f/4.5 Hektor you would have all you need until the bug really bites!  You've got a fine looking camera and so I'd concentrate on getting lenses of similar condition.  Don't forget, with anything other than the 5cm lens you will need either brightline finders or a Viooh. The purchase of a Fikus lens hood would be worth it too; this will fit all the lenses.

When I bought my 111f, which was my first Leica over thirty years ago, it came with a copy of the original instructions and a copy of the Pocket Leica Book.  These had  photos of what lenses were available as new equipment, at the time; this formed the start of what has become my modest collection. 

If you haven't already done so, have a look at JCB's website  http://leicahistorica.pagesperso-orange.fr/

Susie

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[250swb]

Any of the Cosina Voigtlander LTM lenses is the answer. They all have matching finders and come in 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 75mm. The 28mm is no longer available but is the true jewel amongst them so look for it second hand, but no matter, each produces top quality images and the size and balance is perfect for Leica LTM bodies.

[luigi bertolotti]

The body (a conversion, as Susie wrote) looks in very good shape : my opinion is that AN ELMAR 50 3,5 IS MANDATORY  , and search for one that is in good shape, possibly aged similarly : there are a lot for sale, not too costly, and can be CLAed by many labs if necessary.

I said that the Elmar is "mandatory" because is the hyperclassic combination, and a very compact set to go around : but, if you have plans to use your Leica for some specific tasks (for instance, portrait in b&w) you could also consider some "special" like the Summarit 50 1,5... isn't so easy to find a good one, and costly too… but is a tasty lens for b&w on film.

Then… Elmars 90 are so cheap that is a pity not to buy one at once…

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by luigi bertolotti

[jaapv]

6 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Any of the Cosina Voigtlander LTM lenses is the answer. They all have matching finders and come in 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 75mm. The 28mm is no longer available but is the true jewel amongst them so look for it second hand, but no matter, each produces top quality images and the size and balance is perfect for Leica LTM bodies.

But they don't match the classic aura of the camera. If not the Elmar Luigi proposes, I would go for a Canon 50/1.8 LTM. It was the better lens at the time.

[willeica]

Your camera started out as as sharkskin c model. It probably started out as a IIIc, but, unusually, it has an engraved Black Dial, which probably means that it received a new top plate rather than just a screw on plate with a black dial which was common for early to mod 50s upgrades. For details see here on the recent sharkskin thread. There is a possibility that your camera might have started as a Ic, but then it would have required the addition of slow speeds and I am not sure that Leica did that.

I agree with others that you should at least start with a 5cm f 3.5 Elmar, the lens that made Leica a success. For 35mm, the first small Summaron is superb and the 9cm f4 Elmar is a 'staple'. If you want to go for a fast lens try a Summitar, but I prefer the look from a good example of the Summar. I have 12 of them and they are all good.

William

[TomB_tx]

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Certainly the 5 cm Elmar is the classic ltm Leica lens, and is what I bought with my first IIIf (along with a 35mm f3.5 Summaron - still a nice wide angle). However, the top line lens at that time was the 50 f2 Summitar. When I inherited my uncle’s 1948 IIIc it included the Summitar, which is not only faster, but is easier to adjust aperture. I’ve had some very nice results from the Summitar.

[Jerry Attrik]

You ask"...lenses to enhance it..." It is the use of the word 'enhance'.  This suggests that you have a particular use in mind.  So do you want a workhorse camera or one which, as in this case, is in excellent condition to be as near as its original appearance?  For the 'classic' look the information already given is as good as you will get.  If you wish to improve authenticity then lenses made in 1949, the year your camera was built, would be the choice.  This means finding lenses with serial numbers in the range 682001 to 756000: 28mm Hektor (HOOPY); 35mm Elmar (EKURZ); 35mm Summaron (SOONC); 50mm XENON (XEMOO); 50mm Elmar (ELMAR); 50mm Summitar (SOORE); 50mm Summarit (SOOIA); 85mm Summarex (SOOCX); 90mm Elmar (ELANG); 135mm Hektor (HEFAR).

My older IIIf came with a 50mm. f1:3·5 and it was a superb lens, sharp and contrasty. I also bought a 50mm. Summarit which I found to be soft and a little 'flat'.  My 90mm Elmar is a superb portrait lens. My 35mm. Summaron  is good for getting close in but beware of the effects of parallax. People, and dogs in particular, can appear with large noses. Be  aware, also, that the use of auxiliary viewfinders, whilst not essential, are very useful indeed.

It is nice to see someone following the film path, I think it puts one closer to the art of photography with only three things to twiddle and only the 'one-shot' button to press.  All the rest is mental computation.

[250swb]

13 hours ago, jaapv said:

But they don't match the classic aura of the camera. If not the Elmar Luigi proposes, I would go for a Canon 50/1.8 LTM. It was the better lens at the time.

Well neither will the film you can buy today match the aura of the original lenses so the whole thing appears to be a total f**k up. I advise the OP to forget it all based on your insight.

Developers aren't the same, post processing will never be the same again unless the OP uses a wet darkroom, the subtlety of what lens you use is lost to the greater extent, how far do you want to drag the OP down the road towards 'authenticity'?

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by 250swb

[earleygallery]

Welcome to the forum and please ignore the 'banter' above!

I've had a lllf since 1982, my first Leica! It came with a Summar 5cm f2 lens which I thought was lovely at the time as it gave results very different to the ones I was used to. I later realised that particular Summar was suffering from some internal haze and coating marks on the front element. I still have it and still love it for the look. What I found out is that a good Summar is actually a very fine lens capable of excellent results. It's just hard to find a really good one.

I neglected my lllf for some time, using other cameras instead. Then one day I read about the new Voigtlander lenses which were being made in LTM - Leica Thread Mount. I was intrigued and bought a 'Snapshot' Skopar 25mm lens. Suddenly I was finding myself using the lllf all the time, an excellent street combination! But 25mm might be too wide for general use.

I then bought the lens I'd always wanted, a 5cm f3.5 Elmar. It collapses into the camera when not in use (like the Summar) and makes for a very compact package. The lens hardly protrudes from the body and it's easy to carry with you. Even better, the results from the Elmar are quite amazing, especially if you can treat yourself to one of the later 'Red Scale' examples which are slightly better optically (but it is only a slight improvement). Just buy an optically clean one and you'll be very happy with it.

As mentioned it has a downside in that the aperture is set by a small 'knib' on the front of the lens and it takes special filters - the 'clamp on' type filters mean you need to remove the filter to change the aperture. But, if you don't intend to use filters much then it's not an issue.

There are quite a lot of other options, enought to write a book about actually. But just buy an Elmar!

[willeica]

23 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

Welcome to the forum and please ignore the 'banter' above!

I've had a lllf since 1982, my first Leica! It came with a Summar 5cm f2 lens which I thought was lovely at the time as it gave results very different to the ones I was used to. I later realised that particular Summar was suffering from some internal haze and coating marks on the front element. I still have it and still love it for the look. What I found out is that a good Summar is actually a very fine lens capable of excellent results. It's just hard to find a really good one.

I don't understand your banter, James

Apologies for the new graphics. I could not find the old version.

I am with you all the way on the Elmar and the Summar, which were the best lenses ever made by Leica. All of those 3kg f0.xx APO lenses are only for 'barstool banter'.

William

[earleygallery]

They were the best of their time William, and good luck with using that APO Summicron on the lllf

[willeica]

7 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

They were the best of their time William, and good luck with using that APO Summicron on the lllf

I have Peter Karbe working on the LTM version! I met him in Wetzlar last October and he is a very nice chap. I would not touch one of those monster Leica lenses, in whatever mount, with a forty foot pole. Small is beautiful in my book.

As for the IIIf, I have done my best to identify the camera and to give concise advice on suitable lenses above.

William

[frame-it]

i got a nice nikkor a few months back..love it on my iiif. its the Nikon Nikkor H C 50mm F/2 LTM.

[Jon Pop]

My vote would be for the following lenses:

- 50 Elmar f3.5; works great, makes your camera so compact, classic. Adjusting aperture is odd with that little dinky tab, but hey

- 35 Summaron f3.5; excellent little lens.

- 28 Voigtlander f3.5 Color Skopar; yes, it's a more modern lens, etc. etc...but it's amazingly sharp yet not clinical. Mine is in silver and actually blends in quite nicely so I don't feel I've somehow violated the 'antique ethos'...I bought my iiif to use, and it's not a concours race car restoration where you lose points for not having an NOS fan belt....

Sure, all of these are f3.5, but that's fine.

 

[Stacey]

I'm enjoying using the small 21mm f4 Skopar. Comes with a great finder and is fun to shoot with. I have a 25 skopar in Nikon S mount that is also very good, as is the finder it comes with. Any of these modern ultrawides are going to be better and much more reasonably priced. On the classic lenses, the 35 and 50mm f3.5 elmars fit the style of the camera. The 50mm f2 summitar is also a fun lens to shoot with and has a cool look to the images. If you want to go "off brand" the 50mm / 85mm F2 nikkors and the 35mm f2  / 100mm f3.5 canon are all excellent, small lenses.  I also like the canon finders, they are small and look good on any of the old LTM models.

[M9reno]

8 hours ago, willeica said:

I have Peter Karbe working on the LTM version! I met him in Wetzlar last October and he is a very nice chap. I would not touch one of those monster Leica lenses, in whatever mount, with a forty foot pole. Small is beautiful in my book.

Except for... Summarex! 😎

Sample shots:

Elsewhere on the web:

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/RF-Nikkor/Leica_RF/LeicaLSM85cmf15.htm

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/10/27/leica-85mm-f15-summarex-vintage-lens

 

[willeica]

58 minutes ago, M9reno said:

Except for... Summarex! 😎

Sample shots:

Elsewhere on the web:

https://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/RF-Nikkor/Leica_RF/LeicaLSM85cmf15.htm

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/10/27/leica-85mm-f15-summarex-vintage-lens

 

 

I was talking about the modern L mount giants, Alfonso, and not classics like the Summarex. The point I was making was that I don’t like the tendency towards giant lenses produced to get slightly more perfection to facilitate barstool bragging or, worse still, pixel peeping. One only has to look at the perfection of the I  Model A to realize what Barnack had in mind. He was far seeing in that respect as most of the world now uses a smartphone that fits in a pocket for photography. That may be heresy here, but it is indisputable. What would Oskar use for photography if he were alive today?

William

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by willeica

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, 250swb said:

Well neither will the film you can buy today match the aura of the original lenses so the whole thing appears to be a total f**k up. I advise the OP to forget it all based on your insight.

Developers aren't the same, post processing will never be the same again unless the OP uses a wet darkroom, the subtlety of what lens you use is lost to the greater extent, how far do you want to drag the OP down the road towards 'authenticity'?

 

I was talking about camera esthetics and ergonomics, not about lens or film rendering. This is a vintage camera, no? So it is a nice thing to put a matching lens on.

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Hallo,

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[cp995]

I prefer an Elmar 3,5/50 and a Summaron 3,5 50mm for my lovely IIIf

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