Vroon Posted August 28, 2018 Share #521 Posted August 28, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think I must be dim. I always thought exposure control was shutter speed + aperture + iso (or film speed in old money). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 28, 2018 Posted August 28, 2018 Hi Vroon, Take a look here Why M240 users will (not) switch to M10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Exodies Posted August 28, 2018 Share #522 Posted August 28, 2018 That’s ok if you don’t care how the picture looks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted August 28, 2018 Share #523 Posted August 28, 2018 Good (intelligent) practice of aperture(s) differenciate photographers from each other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 28, 2018 Share #524 Posted August 28, 2018 As the man says, aperture is not an exposure control. It controls how the picture looks. Exactly - it will look motion-blurred with too small an aperture and super-high-key with a too large one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vroon Posted August 28, 2018 Share #525 Posted August 28, 2018 Yes I realise that. Aperture IS an exposure control. Amongst other things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted August 28, 2018 Share #526 Posted August 28, 2018 Alternatively, aperture for depth of field and diffraction control, shutter speed for motion blur control, and ISO for exposure and noise. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted August 28, 2018 Share #527 Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes I realise that. Aperture IS an exposure control. Amongst other things. Simon, Not really . Part of... With (Leica M ... ) experience, you would change your thinking. Now I understand what you want to say, but later (after a while with using M ) you would understand what we are trying to say. Just a hint : why people can buy/choose right now in only 28mm for M focal length Summaron-M (f/5.6), Elmarit-M asph. (f/2.8), Summicron-M asph. (f/2 ), Summilux-M asph. (f/1.4) ? Edited August 28, 2018 by a.noctilux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted August 28, 2018 Share #528 Posted August 28, 2018 Interesting thread. If one uses a fast lens on the M240 is the higher ISO speed such a big deal? If one brought every upgraded camera every 4 years it would be massively expensive. My understanding is that the M240 gives you a clean ISO upper limit of 3200 wheres the M10's clean ISO upper limit is 6400 - a 1 stop difference. If you tend to shoot hand held in low light levels frequently then its probably worth it. If you don't ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share #529 Posted August 29, 2018 My understanding is that the M240 gives you a clean ISO upper limit of 3200 wheres the M10's clean ISO upper limit is 6400 - a 1 stop difference. If you tend to shoot hand held in low light levels frequently then its probably worth it. If you don't ... Actually I am fine shooting hand held in low light with fast glass below 3200 (night touristy scenes). What M10 provides is little more DOF control and little extra shutterspeed with that extra ISO. Some may care for that and some may not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 29, 2018 Share #530 Posted August 29, 2018 I don't see huge differences between M10 and M240 files as far as isos are concerned but one of them is important in practice i mean banding at 6400 iso that the M10 doesn't seem to suffer contrary to the M240. Such banding can appear at 3200 iso as well if exposure is pushed in PP but well exposed images are clean at 3200 iso out of my M240. Compared to my Sony A7s mod, clean higher isos bring more freedom to the photographer not only in low light but also when high shutter speeds are required, typically in handheld tele or macro photo and/or on moving subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernstk Posted August 31, 2018 Share #531 Posted August 31, 2018 Yes I realise that. Aperture IS an exposure control. Amongst other things. Yes, of course it is. Among other things like image quality (on older lenses) and DOF. Ernst Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael A. Marcus Posted September 10, 2018 Share #532 Posted September 10, 2018 Recently acquired used M240 w/EVF & 3 batteries, very fair price. Have also M8 & M7 + 21 (Zeiss) 35 50 90 (Leitz) and now 7Artisans 1.1 (fun!) Mostly bought used, traded M's up over many years. Wanted 24 mp and full-frame. People can criticize the EVF-2 and LV for it's relatively low-res, but for me, nearing seventy and after multiple eye surgeries over the years --- it's a revelation. I considered Fuji or Sony but --- nah. Never intend to sell any of the gear and then having to invest in new lens systems! If I need a fast-do-almost-anything camera, I take the DSLR, but that's for convenience. There's no passion for it. None, nada, zilch, bupkes! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share #533 Posted September 10, 2018 Recently acquired used M240 w/EVF & 3 batteries, very fair price. Have also M8 & M7 + 21 (Zeiss) 35 50 90 (Leitz) and now 7Artisans 1.1 (fun!) Mostly bought used, traded M's up over many years. Wanted 24 mp and full-frame. People can criticize the EVF-2 and LV for it's relatively low-res, but for me, nearing seventy and after multiple eye surgeries over the years --- it's a revelation. I considered Fuji or Sony but --- nah. Never intend to sell any of the gear and then having to invest in new lens systems! If I need a fast-do-almost-anything camera, I take the DSLR, but that's for convenience. There's no passion for it. None, nada, zilch, bupkes! Enjoy your M240. I haven not found a need to upgrade (or move) to something else. And yes, EVF is useful even if not perfect (even M10's isn't too). But three batteries! I hardly deplete one battery. I have 2nd one just in case. I don't remember ever needing 2nd one. If my battery shows more than 50% then I don't even bother to charge. Note that it is with RF use. If you use EVF a lot then you will certainly need more. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted September 10, 2018 Share #534 Posted September 10, 2018 I particularly like the ISO control on my M-P....very quick and simple. Rolling the wheel for exposure compensation is good too. Don't mind the focus magnifying button at all...i leave mine so i have to push button if needed, not auto as soon as the lens is touched. It's very easy. It's a revelation for me too having the EVF-2 enabling so many other lenses. The sapphire lcd is beaut...no more screen protectors....hooray. ... ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted September 17, 2018 Share #535 Posted September 17, 2018 I don't see huge differences between M10 and M240 files as far as isos are concerned but one of them is important in practice i mean banding at 6400 iso that the M10 doesn't seem to suffer contrary to the M240. Such banding can appear at 3200 iso as well if exposure is pushed in PP but well exposed images are clean at 3200 iso out of my M240. Compared to my Sony A7s mod, clean higher isos bring more freedom to the photographer not only in low light but also when high shutter speeds are required, typically in handheld tele or macro photo and/or on moving subjects. Thus I await the M11 to hopefully retire/sell the 240. M10's slightly enhanced capabilities were not significant enough. I sat that round out after examining dozens of raw side-by-side comparisons. Meh... not for just 1 stop, virtually the same sensor and a fiddly ISO knob. Who knows, maybe the 240 will be with me for years. Has been a great performer & I make BIG prints Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexGig0 Posted September 24, 2018 Share #536 Posted September 24, 2018 I started rangefinder shooting with an M10, after seven years of shooting DSLRs, so no switching was involved. Before buying the M10, I had handled pre-owned M9 cameras, and new Type 240 and 262 cameras. The M10 felt the best in my hands, and rangefinder focusing, with my bespectacled, slightly astigmatic eyes seemed best with the M10. The pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, available at that moment in time, was what really “pulled me in*,” and the M10 seemed the logical choice. I recently added a Monochrom Type 246. I had contemplated adding an SL, so went to visit the nearest Leica dealer, where no demonstrator SL was to be found, but there was a very-well-preserved, pre-owned 246 in the display case. Using the M10 had, apparently, conditioned my hands to M-like camera bodies, as the Type 246 felt about as good, in my hands, as the M10. Focusing with my tiny, pocketable Summaron 35/3.5, using the rangefinder, seemed more difficult than what I remembered when using my M10. I thought about things, overnight, and returned to the Leica dealer the next day, with my Summilux 50mm ASPH. Upon affixing the Summilux to the 246, all was right with the world, so I bought the Monochrom Type 246. An SL, if it happens, will have to wait. I seem to have typed far too much. My original point was that an M10 is better for me than a Type 240/246/262, but not radically better, so had I already owned a Type 240/246/262, “upgrading” to an M10 would not have been necessary. Except for the few very minor things mentioned above, my just-purchased M246 is quite satisfying, and does not seem to be a “down-grade.” *Nikon became my second system, when specific Nikkors tempted me. It is all about the lenses. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger1914 Posted September 25, 2018 Share #537 Posted September 25, 2018 I just made the move from a M240P to an M10P. Loving it so far, especially the ISO dial. Strange that something that was so normal years ago is now seen as a positive development! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcelography Posted January 3, 2019 Share #538 Posted January 3, 2019 As someone who got into the whole Leica story because it was the kind of camera that I've found ideal to focus and shoot in low light, the better high iso performance of the M10 is really tempting. I've found an excellent deal on a 2nd hand MP240 early in July and have been shooting with it since then. I've shot with rangefinders from 2009 to about 2015 when I ended up migrating to Fuji X, then Sony fullframe. Rangefinders are where I feel right at home, but I've learned to work with EVIL mirrorless cameras as well. Holding the MP240 feels nice but I've felt need to add a thumb grip and a front grip to it because I have small hands and it wasn't feeling very comfortable. When I held the M10... it just felt right. It's not about having a thinner camera per se, but it delivers a substantial gain in ergonomy. I never felt the need to add a grip with any of my film Ms. Now, to spend more to get the M10... I'd stretch to get the M10-P, basically because of the silent shutter. It's something that I really found to be impressive and silent shooting to me is important - I hate disturbing other people and bringing attention to myself, not only when shooting, so it appeals to me. I find it annoying and disrupting to other people to have a shutter sound going off again and again in silent places. I've been exploring the MP240 more and more to try and get the most I can out of it, though. I often go to flickr or forum threads and look at what other people do with it as a mean to inspire myself and send GAS away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share #539 Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) I started this thread in beginning of 2017 when I was pondering about reasons to switch or not. Now after two years I am still satisfied with M240. The performance increase in digital is so slow now a days that there is no *need* to upgrade. GAS, that is another story. Edited January 4, 2019 by jmahto 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 4, 2019 Share #540 Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/19/2017 at 12:02 AM, papimuzo said: I recognize the marginal improvements done on the M10, but using now the M-D 262, I have no need for those improvements, so I will not buy. And my age forbids to see the next move in direction of the M10-D.. Good pictures to all of you. I hope, @papimuzo, that nothing forbids you to get that M10-D now!:) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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