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jmahto

Why M240 users will (not) switch to M10

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Messy typo in the topic. Should read:

Why M240 users will (not) switch to M10

Can someone please correct it.

 

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Lets keep GAS out for this discussion.

 

In practice if you never shoot in very very low light then the advantage of M10 is marginal (better haptics, better EVF, both marginal). Combine that with negatives of no video, no aperture data in exif, no USB, less battery life.

 

Why would you switch?

Edited by jmahto

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Because I have an SL, and there are times when I want to use a smaller/more discreet camera in low light, but don't because the M240 is not at the same IQ/low light level. The M10's extra 2 stops and IQ as good as or better than the SL could tempt me.

But it doesn't.

Yet.

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Because I have an SL, and there are times when I want to use a smaller/more discreet camera in low light, but don't because the M240 is not at the same IQ/low light level. The M10's extra 2 stops and IQ as good as or better than the SL could tempt me.

But it doesn't.

Yet.

Alright... then you are in the group of Leica users who need to shoot in very very low light (else M240 would have been fine. It is no slouch till ISO 1600, even 3200).

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Alright... then you are in the group of Leica users who need to shoot in very very low light (else M240 would have been fine. It is no slouch till ISO 1600, even 3200).

Agreed. My AutoISO limit is 3200 for the M240 and 12500 for the SL. It doesn't have to be "very very low light", but if you want to stop motion (e.g. dancers) or increase depth of field (indoor events) then you can quickly push up against the M240's practical limits.

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If it were me I'd at least consider switching if the color reproduction of the M10 is closer to the that of the SL.

 

I also think the OP is underselling the value of high ISO even in bright light.  I've shot ISO 6400 on my M246 in the bright sunlight a couple of times because I've wanted a very specific look and that happened to be the way to get it that best worked for me.

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The M10 addresses the wishes of a substantial group of users at the price of some functionality.

If one does not belong to this group and cares about the functions that were only marginally upgraded or lost, it is not a sensible upgrade.

 

Taking myself as an example,  I was never worried about the size of the M, use the EVF mainly for very long lenses and am mostly annoyed by the lag, have no problems with the viewfinder as I shoot without spectacles without focusing issues, rarely go into the ISO menu and am not a specific low-light shooter There  is little incentive to spend thousands of dollars.

However, there are plenty of users that craved for a smaller,  low-light more film-M like camera who will happily upgrade.

 

As for the expected "better" sensor, I defy anyone to show a significant superiority on a post-processed print.

 

On a side-note, I'm not sure whether  a hypothetical QL (although interesting) will be an universal alternative. Personally I prefer to look at the scene in front of me, not at the image projected by the lens, except in extremely narrow-DOF situations in tele and macro. And in the latter case the market segment is not empty - at lower prices and excellent quality.

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I'm still waiting on a 36MP or finer-res sensor. The larger VF and better EVF of the M10 does sound nice, but it's not likely to be improved enough for the daylight landscape or low ISO night tripod photography I mostly do with the M-P that I have.

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There is no reason not to switch. 

Approximately 3000 Euro without real benefit?

Now coming from the M8/9 or buying a new M camera anyway - that is a different story

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Approximately 3000 Euro without real benefit?

Now coming from the M8/9 or buying a new M camera anyway - that is a different story

 

No real benefit?

 

Better sensor, slim body, more weatherproof, better range finder, better processor, Wi-Fi.... I would call this "benefits".

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I was happy to see today's M10 specs.....no need for me to switch.

Leica moves very slowly....I like that...really

I do too.

 

The M10's compelling improvements for me are the improvements to the optical viewfinder (I've never been able to see the 28mm framelines since they were first included in an M2; this may be a first), the improved sensor, and the improved data IO (I don't really need 5fps, but having good enough buffer management that I'd never be caught while the camera completed a write is a plus). The slimmer body is a plus, although I'm happy with the M-D's size/shape/weight.

 

The improvements to the LCD, the EVF, the controls, etc, are all good too, but since I moved to the M-D from the M-P some time ago and have not missed the menus, LCD, EVF, et al, they're not important to me. The WiFi and GPS would be occasionally convenient but aren't all that necessary for my photography or image management.

 

So ... If I were using the M-P as my main camera, I'd be upgrading. Because my main camera is the SL which has most of what the M10 offers when I want/need it already, and the M-D serves me well as-is, I won't be upgrading now ... at least not until the M-D10 comes out with the viewfinder, sensor, and internal data improvements. Then I'll have to consider it.

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Wifi is common these days but transferring 24mp files is not that fast. It drains the battery. And even with the T wifi is not a phenomenal experience. Thinner is often nicer, but if there is an expense of battery life then that decreases the practicality.

I'd imagine the sensor is excellent and the hand feel is likely great. But it doesn't see, a must have from the m-p at this point.

I think the M10 is a very reasonable evolution, but not a reason to get rid of a 240. But I suppose that is by design. Will I probably get one in a few years? Yes. But not an urgent swap now.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Twice in the three years I have owned my M240 I have had to look down my nose at M9 users met in the street. I wouldn't like to be in their miserable shoes; most definitely upgrade to the latest M.

 

( But really, perhaps the 10P or next SL.)

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I recognize the marginal improvements done on the M10, but using now the M-D 262, I have no need for those improvements, so I will not buy. And my age forbids to see the next move in direction of the M10-D..

Good pictures to all of you.

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Bought the M-D a couple of month ago and love it. No plans to upgrade. For me cameras are more about passion and emotion and not so much about plain functionality. I believe however, Leica got most things right with this one. If I still would have my M8 or M9 and the M-D would not attract me, I'd definitely pull the trigger, provided cash available.

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I'm switching (mainly for the enhanced functionality of the EVF, the body size, the removal of video, and improvements in high ISO performance).  I'm NOT switching because I dislike the M-240 - I still think it's a great camera.  

 

P.S. Both of mine are currently offer in the Buy and Sell section of the forum if any one is interested

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I think the M10 is very smart, but have only bought my beautiful M-P240 end of last year. Love the size factor of the M10, as I miss my M7 a bit. I also would welcome the extra low-light ability of the new sensor. If it is as good as my SL, I wold appreciate that sensor a lot. I am curious as to how quick and responsive the camera will be!

The bettered electronic viewfinder is not so important for me: SL is a dream...

I will probably buy the M10, but will wait for an M-P version... Need to use my M240 first! And I really love my M-P 240!

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I don't quite fit into the premise of the OP, as I often have occasion to shoot in low light.

The M240 is a great camera, and the M10 is really an M240-perfected.

The thinner body is aesthetically pleasing, but the M-240's dimensions have never bothered me.

I am tempted by the more functional accessory EVF, as I really considered the 240's EVF2 unusable. So there's additional functionality there for lenses wider than 28mm and perhaps mid-telephotos.

That the EVF is an accessory rather than hybridised with the OVF is - in my opinion - poor design. However, that's an opinion many would disagree with and, as the alternative doesn't really exist anywhere in the market, is irrelevant to the purchasing design.

The purported 2-stop ISO performance would be a big gain for me, and would make a substantial difference for many shooting conditions.

I seem to be more sensitive to colour noise than many others, so my shooting envelope with the M-240 is restricted to ISO1250. (Most seem happy to shoot much higher than that.) If the M10 could raise that to ISO5000-ish, it would make a big difference.

It is also the difference between a blurred, handheld night portrait at 1/15 versus a keeper at 1/60.

Finally, the suggestions of improved colour handling are also very attractive, if true.

The real question is whether those improvements, which will help me extract more value from my fantastic M lenses, are worth the hefty changeover cost.

I am mindful that for the cost of 2-stop improvement in ISO, I could well buy a second, used M-240 body or a photographic trip.

So even for someone who is sensitive to the changes the M10 offers, the marginal improvement is still very hard for me to justify.

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