Criticism and pleasant photography

[FMB]

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As an old amateur I've the advantage to leader my own club of fans: my wife, my sons and daughters and few more people. When I post an image I certainly prefer an objective and educated criticism than more eloquent tributes. I've learned that the most of my images are not the masterpieces I thought would be when I took them. They are only medium quality images and from time to time one of them is much better than the others. Then I'm proud of myself. But I am not a professional and may be if I were I would be less objective or at least I would be more concerned by a bad opinion about my pictures.

 

In general terms I agree (with ought establishing a precedent) with Rohne, Stami and others thinking that if we post images in the Forum we must accept criticism, even the pros who must recognize that nobody is free of doing something wrong.

 

But I wanted to say, because I think I can exercise the right to give my opinion as the rules of the Forum allow, that may of us believe in pleasant photography (a sample jointed). That means: it is not necessary longhaired fellows, terrifying images, ragged people, hunger, dirty urban sights, etc. Certainly all this circumstances are spread all over the world, but I always thought that it is more difficult to catch a pretty face of a girl loving her boyfriend that an ugly and dirty face of a beggar. As it's easier to write a fiction telling the story of some miss fortuned fighting against the behaviour of their cruel parents, all of them ill etc, etc, than another talking about normal family living normal events. OK, people must know how unfair is the world and somebody has to do the job to show it as it is.

 

This entire long introduction fits with the feeling I have that the "pleasant photography" seems to be, in some way, classified as second categories, easy photography without any merit. Welcome the criticism, but please don't be too much conditioned by the "unpleasant mood".

 

Francisco.

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[stunsworth]

Franscisco, I think the distinction is between photographs where a knowledge of the subject or location is required, and those which can be appreciated by a stranger in their own right. Your example is perfect for this. For you and the subject it's probably a great photograph that brings back memories of a wonderful time. In those terms, for you, it's wonderful. For those of us who weren't there, and don't know the subjects, it has far less meaning. It's just a snap of some people sat under a tree. No more, no less. None of which means that it has less value to you.

 

A truly great photograph is a very rare thing. In fact if only great photographs were allowed on the forum then its existance would be pointless, there's be nothing there. All of us with a real interest in photography should be striving to produce that elusive masterpiece, and sometimes criticism can help us towards that goal. Of course we'll sometimes receive criticism and decide to ignore it. That's out right.

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[FMB]

This example has nothing to do with my memories because it's a recent picture and I don't know any of this group, but I understand what you mean. But even I know that picture is not a masterpiece , of course, you must recognize that a good photography (not precisely this one) can have its own merit separately of my or your subjetivism.

 

Francisco.

[flavio]

I understand the Francisco's point in a slightly wider way: a picture showing people doing well is less (or supposed to be less) involving than one showing people being sick and this may be experienced each day reading journals or watching Tv or the like.

Moreover I suppose we could even say something about the personal taste, where nobody has plenty to do. Sometime we can even think that our personal taste should be the one everybody has to refer to. Unfortunately it is not true, for nobody.

Forum like this one may help a lot comparing different ideas, views, experiences and skill, if all of us offer reciprocal respect.

[Guest Stefan R.]

I agree with you Francisco and Steve.

 

reading Steves comment I had to think in this picture: IT IS NOT MINE! the photographer is Thomas Liehr

 

 

create stories and ask questions.

[Guest Stefan R.]

Francisco, tu foto esta hecha en Randa? el circulo rojo, el monasterio?

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Flavio, thanks your interpretation is very near to the mine.

 

SteFan, No es desde Randa sino desde el Puig de Sta. Magdalena, cerca de Inca. ¿No lo conoces? Desde allí se ven la bahía de Alcudia y la de Pollensa.

 

Francisco.

[norbert richter]

this image is a celebration and symphony of life

thank you

[Artichoke]

I could not agree with you more

photography's scope is broad & as Sontag pointed out in her famous essay, a most democratic art form

not all photographs here have to be show stoppers or high art

I enjoy seeing moments captured that give meaning, sometimes beyond that of the moment itself and sometimes just to celebrate life, such as the sweet photograph you posted

one can always quibble about technical details and such, but I find great merit in "pleasant photography" in which an image may warm me even for a moment and sometimes stay with me much longer

[vic vic]

hi francesco. solute u for the directness and strieghness.

 

about your pic. too far. no subject exposition. maybe, it is the "obssesivness" to include the tree in the composition?

i would prefer the close up on the greoup. more dynamic rendition, and may even be a feeling of your presense too. i think that would make the mountain feeling even better as the space wouldnot be stucked in frames. well that basically.

 

one point that i really agree with u...

that kitsch poor people and poor culture photogenic photography.

whats that, every almost illiteral photographer tries to copy the sensetions of henry cartier bresson photography. oh sure... bresson was great french intelectual humanist. one shoudl read alot of sarter derida roman gary and their friends first to understand the motives and the premesis of great movements of humanism. mostly, editors and photographer do it now only because it is "in" and seems to be "photogenic".

some talk about "authentic". ya, authentic cultures, where in many of them, women are slaves to their husbands, people are violent.. but how cute it is - they are authentic. cute and photogenic. ah and mainly one big kitsch.

dont get me wrong, i concider myself as humanist etc, and love that great french tradition in photography, philosophy, literature and any other art there... but i dont like when it is taken in kitsch and empty way without any depth and insight.

and by the way, when cartier bresson was photographing europe (spain for exammple) there was crazy post ww1 poverty and bresson made it with such a sensitivity.. not photogenic kitsch.

 

about the same time as cartier bresson, there was other great french fotograp[her called jaqus henri lartigue. breathtaking. he was photographing a higher society, whith equaly great sensitivity and intelectual understanding as bresson was doing european post war povery. he was doing fashion like, cars when they were just invited. he was photographing the attempt to fly. people are usually happy in his works, beautiful. and bohema. damn, im looking at his photos and a loose myself into one of the greatest periouds of human history - the epoch of inventions etc.

 

those are the origins of photography more or less. among the most important figures that shaped the roots of visual/photographic word we live in.

i love the classics of french humanism of cartierbresson and his afterward tradition - love very much...

exitement from photography... bresson or lartigue...... lartigue )

[Sandokan]

In Luminous Landscape, George Barr discusses the different levels of photography

A. Prints don’t seem to have a point, and don’t make good snapshots.

B. Decent snapshots.

C. Friends are admiring your ‘snapshots’

D. Prints starting to have artistic value for themselves.

E. Prints are admirable but not wonderful - lacking emotional impact.

F. Strong images, great composition, making the point, lovely!

G. The handful of the very best images ever made - the icons of photography.

Taking Your Photography To The Next Level

 

Is that the point you were getting at? How different people react in different ways to the photos you present? I have some friends who think I am a great photographer, but my wife flicks through them and says "out of focus", "not sharp", "whats the point", "eeergh ... no".

 

Without criticism we (I guess the majority of people) cannot improve - that goes for life not just hobbies (my opinion).

 

yours, Ravi

[flavio]

Hi Francisco,

glad to match your point so close. Its mine too, actually and we do not need any war. Just shot and show. Its a matter of taste, very often and we can talk for hours about our pictures, perspective, camera and lens (even lightmeter, since I love my Weston Master :-). It is a pleasure if we talk as friends and not just to impose one point of view.

Latin soul? :-)

[telewatt]

my idea is not to think different between "privat pictures" or "real pictures"..

Do always the best you can do...

 

here a old privat picture, my daughter and I think it is a good one....

 

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regards,

Jan

 

oh, I did a mistake, there is a second picture, my wife...

[fotografr]

 

In general terms I agree (with ought establishing a precedent) with Rohne, Stami and others thinking that if we post images in the Forum we must accept criticism, even the pros who must recognize that nobody is free of doing something wrong.

 

Francisco.

 

It is absolutely true that nobody is free of errors. But, consider this: Fifty people look at your photograph and there will be fifty different opinions of what is wrong and right with it. So if one person says, "You should have been more to the right," and another says, "You should have been more to the left." Then one more comes along and says, "No, they are both wrong. You should just crop the photo to the bottom of their feet." What good does all this do for you? How do you know who is right in order to apply it to your future experiences to improve your work?

 

Many times I have seen criticisms here discourage and confuse people, sometimes even making them not want to post images again. That is everyone's loss.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Regards,

[Guest Stefan R.]

and if I have 50 differnt opinions under my pictures I will respect all 50 opinions. I dont have to agree, but I will respect them, I have to live with it when I show pictures in public. regards

[telewatt]

 

Many times I have seen criticisms here discourage and confuse people, sometimes even making them not want to post images again. That is everyone's loss.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Regards,

 

this is like in a game, some person are playing only if they are winner.

..other stop playing if something is going wrong..

...and some loose, loose, loose, but they lean and getting better and later they win.. think about it!...

 

regards,

Jan

[Guest Stefan R.]

my idea is not to think different between "privat pictures" or "real pictures"..

Do always the best you can do...

 

here a old privat picture, my daughter and I think it is a good one....

 

[ATTACH]41646[/ATTACH]

 

 

regards,

Jan

 

oh, I did a mistake, there is a second picture, my wife...

 

there are "family" pictures they even work for strangers, for non family members. they should tell a story, then it works (to me). when I place my daughter in front of the camera

"look into the camera now, I take a picture of you" that version will be less interesting even boring for people who have nothing to do with the subject.

 

your pictures Jan are cool!

[Guest Stefan R.]

Flavio, thanks your interpretation is very near to the mine.

 

SteFan, No es desde Randa sino desde el Puig de Sta. Magdalena, cerca de Inca. ¿No lo conoces? Desde allí se ven la bahía de Alcudia y la de Pollensa.

 

Francisco.

 

no no lo conozco, me parecía el monasterio pequeño antes de llegar arriba a Randa, allí a veces dormíamos cuando fuimos a palma a correr en bici. saludos S.

[stunsworth]

... But, consider this: Fifty people look at your photograph and there will be fifty different opinions of what is wrong and right with it. So if one person says, "You should have been more to the right," and another says, "You should have been more to the left." Then one more comes along and says, "No, they are both wrong. You should just crop the photo to the bottom of their feet." What good does all this do for you?

 

Yes there may be all of those differing opinions, but occasionally someone makes a comment and you wonder why you didn't think of that, and if you are open minded enough it will help to make you a better photographer. Sure people give opinions and you disagree with them, but the alternative is that people will have opinions and not give them. The critique process can make both the photographer and critic think, and that has to be a good thing.

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[Guest stnami]

fotografr, maybe you are easily confused or your capacity to analyse is yet to mature enough to take advice:rolleyes: ..... then was it because you were stung by criticism on another thread...... a patern is forming in your responses