Tampico Posted October 11, 2016 Share #121 Posted October 11, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm being pursued by LFI's debt collectors at the moment. In short, I had a subscription for LFI International Edition for 2015 but decided not to renew for 2016. Started receiving which I assumed to be re-subscription letters (in German) which I ignored. Initially 54 Euro for the subscription, which then became 57 Euros, which then became 60 Euros. By June, their debt collectors/lawyers (Philipp Marquort Rechtsanwaltskanzlei) then sent me a letter and by then the bill had then gone up to 124.92 Euros. I then phoned up LFI and also the debt collectors to find out what was going on and the debt collectors agreed to email me a brief translation. The email explained that the subscription automatically renews and that I was liable for the subscription plus reminders plus lawyer fees. In reality, I received the Jan 2016 edition before they stopped sending me the magazine so I offered to pay for that. As of today, their debt collectors/lawyers have now agreed that the fee can be reduced to 83.14 Euros. I must admit, LFI have quite a unique approach to internet retailing and customer service in this day and age ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 11, 2016 Posted October 11, 2016 Hi Tampico, Take a look here Threatening Letter from LFI. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted October 11, 2016 Share #122 Posted October 11, 2016 Excellent customer service, you definitely can't just forget to renew your subscription and suffer the disappointment of missed issues of poorly translated advertorials! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoinC Posted October 11, 2016 Share #123 Posted October 11, 2016 The best way of handling non-payment of advance subscription is to stop send the magazines out, exactly as happens with insurance for me - I stop paying = I stop receiving cover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 11, 2016 Share #124 Posted October 11, 2016 What a shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 11, 2016 Share #125 Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) This ought to be a business school case study in looking after your customers in a global economy. Edit: memo to self - never subscribe to LFI. Or possibly any other German magazine. Edited October 11, 2016 by LocalHero1953 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2016 Share #126 Posted October 12, 2016 I'm being pursued by LFI's debt collectors at the moment. In short, I had a subscription for LFI International Edition for 2015 but decided not to renew for 2016. Started receiving which I assumed to be re-subscription letters (in German) which I ignored. Initially 54 Euro for the subscription, which then became 57 Euros, which then became 60 Euros. By June, their debt collectors/lawyers (Philipp Marquort Rechtsanwaltskanzlei) then sent me a letter and by then the bill had then gone up to 124.92 Euros. I then phoned up LFI and also the debt collectors to find out what was going on and the debt collectors agreed to email me a brief translation. The email explained that the subscription automatically renews and that I was liable for the subscription plus reminders plus lawyer fees. In reality, I received the Jan 2016 edition before they stopped sending me the magazine so I offered to pay for that. As of today, their debt collectors/lawyers have now agreed that the fee can be reduced to 83.14 Euros. I must admit, LFI have quite a unique approach to internet retailing and customer service in this day and age ! What could happen if you did not pay? As a subscriber to a magazine printed in English, it should be self-evident that all necessary correspondence is written in English. Therefore, the first and original error lies with LFI with all supposed follow-up costs. One for you incomprehensible in German written payment demands could be understood by you as unwanted advertising mail, likewise the additionally sent copy could be a nice advertising gift from LFI for you. LFI is still your business partner. If LFI solicits payment claims associated with additional costs to you foreign lawyers, this is not your problem. Before making any payments to LFI or their lawyers, you should report the impossible behavior of LFI to the Leica headquarters and the owner, Mr. Kaufmann himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampico Posted October 12, 2016 Share #127 Posted October 12, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) What could happen if you did not pay? As a subscriber to a magazine printed in English, it should be self-evident that all necessary correspondence is written in English. Therefore, the first and original error lies with LFI with all supposed follow-up costs. One for you incomprehensible in German written payment demands could be understood by you as unwanted advertising mail, likewise the additionally sent copy could be a nice advertising gift from LFI for you. LFI is still your business partner. If LFI solicits payment claims associated with additional costs to you foreign lawyers, this is not your problem. Before making any payments to LFI or their lawyers, you should report the impossible behavior of LFI to the Leica headquarters and the owner, Mr. Kaufmann himself. LFI's debt collectors have given me until the 20th October to pay the (now reduced) amount of 83.14 Euros. To avoid any further hassle I'm considering just paying up to get these people out of my life. However, if I do this, I will write to LFI and make clear to them what I (and obviously many other people on the this forum) think of their subscription policy and communication methods. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted October 12, 2016 Share #128 Posted October 12, 2016 LFI's debt collectors have given me until the 20th October to pay the (now reduced) amount of 83.14 Euros. To avoid any further hassle I'm considering just paying up to get these people out of my life. However, if I do this, I will write to LFI and make clear to them what I (and obviously many other people on the this forum) think of their subscription policy and communication methods. I had something similar with Health company, all of a sudden demands for money.. I wrote to them stating that as I did not actually owe any monies I would be charging them $50 for every letter they sent me and I had to read thereafter..I also sent them a set of small claims court papers with my charges etc pencilled in.. within a few days I had a letter stating that on reviewing the file, that they had made an error and No monies where owning..furthermore my credit record would not have any detrimental remarks regarding this situation.. Fight ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaW Posted August 31, 2017 Share #129 Posted August 31, 2017 Hello, I'm just in the same boat now. I did ask my father to buy me a 1 year subscription in 2015 as a birthday gift. I received 8 magazines and then the deliveries stopped. I then received an invoice for a contract renewal and a reminder that I ignored too. Today, 2 years later, my father received a letter from Philipp Marquort Rechtsanwaltskanzlei debt collector claiming we must pay 140eur for our running subscription. I find this method simply disgusting. I'm living in Belgium and i know that forced renewal is not legal here, but then there is the German low stating its legal... I cannot understand how for instance it can be legally possible to claim for a payment of a subscription and on the other side not to make its own part of the contract (no magazine was received after the 1 year stopped)... I now have to write a letter to those guys explaining my situation, but they will for sure ignore it and keep put the pressure asking me to pay as this is what they do. If somebody did stand against them already, please let me - us - know your story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 31, 2017 Share #130 Posted August 31, 2017 I would write back, state you did not receive the magazine and tell them to cease writing to you or take it to court. If you told a court that LFI didn't fulfil their part of the contract how could they find in their favour?! Copy your letter to Andreas Kaufmann. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted August 31, 2017 Share #131 Posted August 31, 2017 Anyway if there is a contract or not: They only can get the money, when they sent the LFI issues, what they have to prove in German law. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 1, 2017 Share #132 Posted September 1, 2017 Don’t worry about this nonsense. As i said above, the applicable law is that of the habitual residence of the customer (Rome convention, art. 5 - http://tinyurl.com/zokenqe) i.e. Belgian law in your case. No contract renewal has been accepted by you and LFI will never sue you for so little money anyway. I would treat those stupid legal threats as a spam or instruct counsel if you are upset. Just bad manners from an obsolete company if you ask me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted September 1, 2017 Share #133 Posted September 1, 2017 To whom it may concern: Reading the name of a certain German law firm in this context, I can only say LFI - and their owners - should think again very hard, if the are in good company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaW Posted September 1, 2017 Share #134 Posted September 1, 2017 Thanks for you replies. It's reassuring. I did inform LFI today that I find this letter quite offensive and did put Leica Customer Care in copy. I'm quite heavily invested in Leica (S and M systems) and I tried to explain that this kind of business attitude can ruin even a very loyal customer's satisfaction. Hope that someone at Leica will quickly close this administrative fuss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 2, 2017 Share #135 Posted September 2, 2017 I thought inertia marketing was banned under EU consumer protection regulations. Automatic renewal of a magazine subscription by the publisher, without the express permission or request of the customer and where the customer has not set up a repeat payment by direct debit or Paypal, is classed as inertia marketing. EU consumer protection regulations trump German law every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted September 2, 2017 Share #136 Posted September 2, 2017 I thought inertia marketing was banned under EU consumer protection regulations. Automatic renewal of a magazine subscription by the publisher, without the express permission or request of the customer and where the customer has not set up a repeat payment by direct debit or Paypal, is classed as inertia marketing. EU consumer protection regulations trump German law every time. Wilson, I thought this too. I have a subscription to LFI and get a reminder when renewal is due, and I pay them by credit card (as it happens, I do wish to continue subscribing). I wonder though, whether in the small print of taking out a subscription, is a clause saying that it is ongoing until the subscriber explicitly cancels it (to which the subscriber has therefore agreed)? Some EU legislation forbids anyone signing away their rights in this way, but I don't know whether it applies to this sort of marketing. I also think I recall reading something about my subscription being governed by German law. What we need is a Forum member who knows about EU law and German law (and, as act implies, the Rome Convention). Any offers? Whatever, should I wish to cancel my subscription, I shall be sure to write to them explicitly to this effect in good time before my current year's subscription expires! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted September 2, 2017 Share #137 Posted September 2, 2017 PS: in the UK I once decided to take out five year extended warranty cover for a domestic appliance (with a company which all our UK members will know). They had an offer to pay the charge by direct debit in four instalments for a lower cost. I took up the offer, thinking at the time, what's in it for them? At the end of the five year term I got a letter from them saying that cover would be renewed for another year, at what I thought was an exorbitant amount, unless I contacted them to decline (which, needless to say I did PDQ) and that was the end of it. I then looked in the small print, and indeed it did say that, if I paid by direct debit, they would renew for another year at the end of the five year period, unless I informed them to the contrary. No harm done in the end, but, once bitten ..... PPS: SaW, I don't thing LFI these days has anything officially to do with Leica Camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 2, 2017 Share #138 Posted September 2, 2017 Hello, I'm just in the same boat now. I did ask my father to buy me a 1 year subscription in 2015 as a birthday gift. I received 8 magazines and then the deliveries stopped. I then received an invoice for a contract renewal and a reminder that I ignored too. Today, 2 years later, my father received a letter from Philipp Marquort Rechtsanwaltskanzlei debt collector claiming we must pay 140eur for our running subscription. I find this method simply disgusting. I'm living in Belgium and i know that forced renewal is not legal here, but then there is the German low stating its legal... I cannot understand how for instance it can be legally possible to claim for a payment of a subscription and on the other side not to make its own part of the contract (no magazine was received after the 1 year stopped)... I now have to write a letter to those guys explaining my situation, but they will for sure ignore it and keep put the pressure asking me to pay as this is what they do. If somebody did stand against them already, please let me - us - know your story. I would simply ignore this. Even if this were legal -which it probably isn't as they did not fulfil their contract- nobody in his right mind is likely to try and collect such a sum through two jurisdictions. I fail to see how p*****g off their customers is supposed to work as a business model. Considering - maybe you should write them a letter explaining where they can put their claim just to get it off your chest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 2, 2017 Share #139 Posted September 2, 2017 Don’t worry about this nonsense. As i said above, the applicable law is that of the habitual residence of the customer (Rome convention, art. 5 - http://tinyurl.com/zokenqe) i.e. Belgian law in your case. No contract renewal has been accepted by you and LFI will never sue you for so little money anyway. I would treat those stupid legal threats as a spam or instruct counsel if you are upset. Just bad manners from an obsolete company if you ask me. Are you sure? 1. A contract shall be governed by the law chosen by the parties. The choice must be expressed or demonstrated with reasonable certainty by the terms of the contract or the circumstances of the case. By their choice the parties can select the law applicable to the whole or a part only of the contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 2, 2017 Share #140 Posted September 2, 2017 Are you sure? As far as i can w/o knowing the brief yes. There is no contract renewal here so not contract at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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