first images of the new SL

[pico]

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You critics of the size of the camera and its aesthetics amaze me!

 

What are you but self-centered egotists frightened of some kind of fashionista putting you down? Have you no self esteem? Or are you so physically weak you cannot lift a bottle of water? The new Leica is no larger than the original Leicaflex II and it is immeasurably superior.

[jto555]

I think Leica have thought long and hard about the design and market for this camera. It is not a pretty 'look at me' camera but a pro tool. At that price point it has to be! I would say that Leica wants to be seen as THE pro mark. Very few pro's use the M or S as they are not seen to be able to compete in that market. This SL looks like it should.

 

Looking at the lenses, they look like they might cover a bigger image circle than full frame, so the images quality they produce should be out of this world. 

 

You want a MF - get an S

You want a pro FF camera - get an SL.

You want a small FF camera - get an M

You want a point and shoot/pocket - they have the Q, X, and the T.

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[earleygallery]

I think Leica have thought long and hard about the design and market for this camera. It is not a pretty 'look at me' camera but a pro tool. At that price point it has to be! I would say that Leica wants to be seen as THE pro mark. Very few pro's use the M or S as they are not seen to be able to compete in that market. This SL looks like it should.

 

 

 

Can you imagine many working pro's dumping their tried and tested Canon or Nikon systems to buy the SL with it's package zoom lens? There are only 2 other lenses in the pipeline currently. 

 

It's a camera for the wealthy amateur, really. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I really don't think Leica are going after the pro market with this one. 

[EdwardM]

What I just can not accept about new lens line is 2.8-4... Leica is asking more than 4K USD for telephoto lens with such aperture ?

Given the size of the lens why they can't produce it fixed at 2.8 as Canon 24-70 does for 2k USD?

thats strange. 

SL is great camera but I will pass! New M please. New M! 

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

You critics of the size of the camera and its aesthetics amaze me!

 

What are you but self-centered egotists frightened of some kind of fashionista putting you down? Have you no self esteem? Or are you so physically weak you cannot lift a bottle of water? The new Leica is no larger than the original Leicaflex II and it is immeasurably superior.

Agree they are all a bunch of wussies. Also why do you need another body to try your M lenses on...... What's wrong with the M body???????

[jmahto]

Can you imagine many working pro's dumping their tried and tested Canon or Nikon systems to buy the SL with it's package zoom lens? There are only 2 other lenses in the pipeline currently. 

 

It's a camera for the wealthy amateur, really. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I really don't think Leica are going after the pro market with this one. 

Why would you put a double card slot on a camera for amateur market?

[jto555]

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Can you imagine many working pro's dumping their tried and tested Canon or Nikon systems to buy the SL with it's package zoom lens? There are only 2 other lenses in the pipeline currently. 

 

It's a camera for the wealthy amateur, really. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I really don't think Leica are going after the pro market with this one. 

I can and I did. Well, I went for the M system. The investment in SL body and SL lenses is huge, so you are right in that not many pros will go for the system at the moment. However, this is a 'just launched' system, so lets see how it matures. As for lenses, the T lenses cover from 11mm (up to 135mm), so now the SL has 11mm to 280mm covered. Not bad for day one.

 

Now the bad news. A quick tot at B&H for two bodies, two SF64 flashes, a T 11mm to 23mm, a 24mm to 90mm and a 90 to 280mm brings the total to about $30K. I think this system will appeal to the type of photographer who can charge $12k plus per wedding.

[LocalHero1953]

Well, this does not look like it is for me. Too large, too expensive. But I don't think it was ever aimed at the likes of me or the typical M user.

I think this is aimed squarely at the pro or wannabe pro market, as the first serious FF mirrorless camera.

I suspect Leica also sees this as potentially their biggest launch since the M.

If they have got it right, then Nikon and Canon should be worried unless they have something similar in the pipeline

After all, when you come to think of it, a flappy mirror thing and funny-shaped lump of glass is so bizarre - so steampunk. About as bizarre as an optico-mechanical RF.

 

Of course (and before you all jump on me), whether they have got it right is another matter - time will tell.

 

I also think that the T-mount cameras will get the bulk of Leica's R&D going forward. The M will, I hope, get the SL & T technology handmedowns in the shape of better processor, sensor, EVF tech and interface, but I doubt that the M will be the first to get these things unless an M upgrade happens to catch one of them at the right time.

 

This prospect does not worry me: I'm happy for slow and steady improvement to the M, and no pressure for it to include all the latest gizmos. I doubt that we'll see major change until miniaturisation allows a hybrid VF or electronic RF to be shoehorned into the M body.

 

I'll stick to my M. Till....., well maybe......, or possibly.......

[CheshireCat]

My main concern with this camera is how well M wides will work on it. We all know the issues with sensor glass thickness.

 

Also, manual focus aids don't seem any better than on the A7R2 (which is still 20 millions pixels ahead).

 

Love the GPS though !

Edited October 20, 2015 by CheshireCat

[IkarusJohn]

I'm somewhat surprised at some of the reactions here.  What did you think the camera was going to be?

 

We knew it would be:

• full frame - with the Q coming out with the new sensor, and the new S being "only" 37.5MP, this camera was always going to have 24MP
• it's AF - of course the lenses are huge compared to the M lenses

As it's Leica, we also expected it to be reasonably stripped down compared to the competition, and to be expensive.  Where's the surprise?

 

For me - fastest AF (interesting, if they can deliver) and 4.4MP EVF with no blackout and quiet shutter ... it just gets better and better.  Takes all Leica lenses - let me say that again ALL.  T, M, S and Cine, and from Jono's brief review, good with M wides.

 

I ditched everything for my fist M in 2010.  I loved the change, and still love my M cameras and lenses.  But, I did realise the limitations inherent in the system (which the M(240) did not address for me).  I tried the A7R (it really was hopeless for my needs), then I tried the D800E (HUGE and complicated, and I couldn't use my M lenses).  So, the comparison is not with the M cameras - this is not the latest M, it's something else completely different no one else is making.

 

Fair comparisons - Canon 5D3 or D810.  They're dSLRs, but pretty much in the same market sector it seems to me - they're cheaper, more developed accessories and lenses, but huge and complex.  A7R2?  Perhaps for some, but I can't warm to the way Sony do things, the A7 is too small and fiddly for my hands, and I'm primarily an M shooter with M lenses (which is not native territory for Sony).  Where Luminous Landscapes portrayed the A7R2 as being the body for all lenses (in reality, really only Sony and Canon), the SL is the camera for all Leica lenses.

 

Size?  Pffft, it isn't and was never going to be a compact camera or a replacement or even competitor for the M.

 

I've wasted a lot of time (and some money) investing in the A7 then Nikon systems - this was the camera I wanted.

 

I might owe you that cup of coffee yet, Alan.  I was told at the outset that Leica was producing exactly the camera I have been asking for over the last couple of years - looks like they've delivered.

 

Cheers

John

Edited October 20, 2015 by IkarusJohn

[earleygallery]

I can and I did. Well, I went for the M system. The investment in SL body and SL lenses is huge, so you are right in that not many pros will go for the system at the moment. However, this is a 'just launched' system, so lets see how it matures. As for lenses, the T lenses cover from 11mm (up to 135mm), so now the SL has 11mm to 280mm covered. Not bad for day one.

 

Now the bad news. A quick tot at B&H for two bodies, two SF64 flashes, a T 11mm to 23mm, a 24mm to 90mm and a 90 to 280mm brings the total to about $30K. I think this system will appeal to the type of photographer who can charge $12k plus per wedding.

 

I'm not talking about the M. 

 

Yes it's just launched but are you seriously going to buy an SL and then use it for T lenses? APS-C & 10 MP ? I guess there are dafter ways to waste money….

[MarkP]

The camera is massive!  Take a look at the photos on DPReview showing someone holding it.  Whoa.

 

Camera is fine, lens is big as expected (larger and heavier than the 28-90 Vario-Elmarit-R).

 

 

or it's a hobbit holding the camera 

Edited October 20, 2015 by MarkP

[hepcat]

I think that most of you have entirely missed who the market is for this camera.  While many of you have come to Leica since the M8 was introduced, the R series cameras had a loyal following for thirty years and there are THOUSANDS of them still in service with a fleet of R-mount lenses.  This camera was promised to those folks when Leica discontinued the R9 back in 2009.

 

Yes, there are pros who still have their stable of R-mount lenses who will be pleased to have a full-frame pro body upon which to mount them again.

 

The Leicaflex R-mount bodies have never been my cup of tea either, but they've got a loyal following.  I posted this in another thread, but Jono Slack wrote a good practical evaluation of the camera here:  http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2015/10/leica-sl-test-jono/?utm_source=luf151020&utm_medium=E-Mail

 

This body isn't targeted at anyone who is currently heavily invested in the M system, although I think it's pretty impressive that it will also mount M lenses as well as R and T.  It will sell well; just not to many M buyers.  And honestly, there wasn't much cross-over between M system and R system owners back in the film days.  

Edited October 20, 2015 by hepcat

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

The camera is massive!  Take a look at the photos on DPReview showing someone holding it.  Whoa.

Big is better buddy................please come out of the closet

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

 back in the film days.  

Dinosaur

[Belle123]

As someone who used to shoot with R cameras, and had those massive long lenses, if I still had them I would have a hard time justifying this camera because they would still be manual focusing.  Right??

 

I think this is a nice camera, but not for me.  I wish Leica the best with it.  Now......back to the M.

[earleygallery]

I think most R users either sold up and moved on, or bought into Canon or Nikon systems to use their R lenses (and I best most then started buying Canon or Nikon lenses as well). 

 

I'm not sure Leica should be banking on the hope that there is still a large number of R users out there with £5K burning a hole in their pocket. One of the London Leica s/h dealers stopped buying/selling R gear altogether a few years ago (they have since reversed that decision). 

 

At the moment, the market for the SL is primarily the M user who wants an alternative viewfinder/focus method and/or option for longer lenses. 

[bocaburger]

 

I think this is aimed squarely at the pro or wannabe pro market, as the first serious FF mirrorless camera.

 

If they have got it right, then Nikon and Canon should be worried unless they have something similar in the pipeline

Worried about what segment of their market?  The pros who need/want fast 300-400-500-600mm lenses for sports, tilt-shift lenses for architecture, sophisticated smart-flash, and a solid pro-services infrastructure with reasonably-priced quick-turnaround on repairs and loaner equipment available overnight, all for a fraction of the cost of Leica prices?  Or the entry-level amateurs who would laugh at the idea of paying ten times the cost of a Rebel + 2 zooms for a body alone?

I think if anyone needs to worry it's Leica, about M owners who use the EVF 99% of the time anyway. 

[sc_rufctr]

Worried about what segment of their market?  The pros who need/want fast 300-400-500-600mm lenses for sports, tilt-shift lenses for architecture, sophisticated smart-flash, and a solid pro-services infrastructure with reasonably-priced quick-turnaround on repairs and loaner equipment available overnight, all for a fraction of the cost of Leica prices?  Or the entry-level amateurs who would laugh at the idea of paying ten times the cost of a Rebel + 2 zooms for a body alone?

I think if anyone needs to worry it's Leica, about M owners who use the EVF 99% of the time anyway. 

 

Have you priced the pro Gear from Nikon or Canon lately? 

Edited October 21, 2015 by sc_rufctr

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[ravinj]

I hope that the SL lenses don't have the same Shite AF motors as the S lenses have and break

 

SL lenses will ship with spare DC motors and a screwdriver to replace them.