Exodies Posted April 10, 2014 Share #281 Posted April 10, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Auto ISO works perfectly on my NIKON Df ..... I set the shutter speed and f-stop in manual mode. ISO moves up and down as needed (within the parameters I've set). I do the same in auto mode. My cam is called M240 BTW. Oh! this is weird. I thought that if you set a shutter speed on an M 240 when ISO is set to auto, then ISO doesn't move to accommodate it, but switches to a random value (coincidentally equal to the last manual ISO setting you made). As an aside, this could be used in a detective story - the baddie sets a characteristic ISO value, takes a picture then switches to auto ISO to cover his tracks. Our inspired detective switches the shutter speed from auto to some other value thus revealing what the previous ISO had been "hey! Isn't that Photo Joe's favorite ISO? He must have used the camera last". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 10, 2014 Posted April 10, 2014 Hi Exodies, Take a look here Auto iso coming.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted April 10, 2014 Share #282 Posted April 10, 2014 Oh! this is weird. I thought that if you set a shutter speed on an M 240 when ISO is set to auto, then ISO doesn't move to accommodate it... Of course it does. Just set the minimum shutter speed you need in the auto iso menu and you will see isos moving up and down as you like them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 10, 2014 Share #283 Posted April 10, 2014 I'm with Exodies on this. Just tested it: 1. Set Auto ISO, set manual shutter speed, take photo indoors. Result: underexposed photo with ISO labelled as 200. And I did not see the viewfinder display showing ISO, moving or otherwise. 2. Set Auto ISO, set auto shutter speed, take the same photo. Result: reasonably exposed photo, ISO labelled as 1250. Conclusion: Auto ISO doesn't work with manual shutter speeds, which is what I thought the whole grumble about Auto ISO on the M240 was about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted April 10, 2014 Share #284 Posted April 10, 2014 Just realised lct, I guess you are referring to Auto shutter speed operation, when you have a little control over shutter speed (i.e. you can set slowest speed). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 10, 2014 Share #285 Posted April 10, 2014 Yes the slowest shutter speed or a "1 / focal length" speed with detected lenses. Allows to view chosen isos and actual shutter speeds in the viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted April 10, 2014 Share #286 Posted April 10, 2014 Of course it does. Just set the minimum shutter speed you need in the auto iso menu and you will see isos moving up and down as you like them. Don't have an M240, so I may be mistaken. When in A shutter mode and Auto ISO the minimum shutter speed is honored by the body as long as underexposure will not occur. If the minimum shutter speed will result in underexposure a slower speed will be selected by the body. So if I selected 1/125 sec as minimum to stop subject motion I could get blurred images if light levels dropped far enough. If Auto ISO worked with a manual shutter setting of 1/125 sec I would get an underexposed shot that was free from motion blur In the same situation. Within reason I can correct underexposure but not blur. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted April 10, 2014 Share #287 Posted April 10, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Don't have an M240, so I may be mistaken. When in A shutter mode and Auto ISO the minimum shutter speed is honored by the body as long as underexposure will not occur. If the minimum shutter speed will result in underexposure a slower speed will be selected by the body. So if I selected 1/125 sec as minimum to stop subject motion I could get blurred images if light levels dropped far enough. If Auto ISO worked with a manual shutter setting of 1/125 sec I would get an underexposed shot that was free from motion blur In the same situation. Within reason I can correct underexposure but not blur. Not to mention that for some inexplicable reason you can't select a minimum shutter speed faster than 1/500th. So if I need 1/1000th I am out of luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted April 10, 2014 Share #288 Posted April 10, 2014 Don't have an M240, so I may be mistaken. When in A shutter mode and Auto ISO the minimum shutter speed is honored by the body as long as underexposure will not occur. If the minimum shutter speed will result in underexposure a slower speed will be selected by the body. So if I selected 1/125 sec as minimum to stop subject motion I could get blurred images if light levels dropped far enough. If Auto ISO worked with a manual shutter setting of 1/125 sec I would get an underexposed shot that was free from motion blur In the same situation. Within reason I can correct underexposure but not blur. Right... and that's why me too would like to have this famed FW update... while admit that the current AutoISO mode in M240 has a certain sense, I personally find it a sort of "half-way" with not a definite usefulness... a strict control on speed can be VERY and SURELY useful in several situations with long focals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted April 10, 2014 Share #289 Posted April 10, 2014 I think a real Easter Bunny might arrive before we see this promised update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted April 10, 2014 Share #290 Posted April 10, 2014 Not to mention that for some inexplicable reason you can't select a minimum shutter speed faster than 1/500th. So if I need 1/1000th I am out of luck. Big improvement over the M9:rolleyes:. There you had 1/125 as slowest speed and 1/180 lens dependant with lens detection for a 135mm. Did you try choosing a very long focal length from the menue you get with the R-lens adapter and then set the Auto-Iso on "lens dependant"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted April 10, 2014 Share #291 Posted April 10, 2014 Big improvement over the M9:rolleyes:. There you had 1/125 as slowest speed and 1/180 lens dependant with lens detection for a 135mm. I know. It's almost comical: Somebody at Leica must have spent time pondering what the new "improved" limitation should be -- instead of just eliminating the limitation altogether and allowing the user to pick any valid shutter speed value as a minimum value of auto ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted April 11, 2014 Share #292 Posted April 11, 2014 Sorry, quoted wrong post... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted April 11, 2014 Share #293 Posted April 11, 2014 Could you point me towards the scientific test results that demonstrate this? Auto iso has no other effect than providing nice output to the screen, it does not improve noise Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Helm Posted April 14, 2014 Share #294 Posted April 14, 2014 See my post 183. Will resume this when my Flu is over Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
intermediatic Posted April 15, 2014 Share #295 Posted April 15, 2014 I have just gotten off the phone with Leica Solms. A 14 year old boy named Dieter does the coding. He doesn't work directly for Leica but rather for his father, who cleans the bathrooms at Leica. Dieter had exams to sit for and then he was in big trouble for putting bleach in his the laundry machine when his sister's dark sports clothes (she's a big high school athlete, unlike Dieter) were in there to get even for a perceived slight. As a result he was grounded and couldn't come in to use the TRS-80 at Leica that they code firmware on. The story is developing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 15, 2014 Share #296 Posted April 15, 2014 Solms? You must have spoken with Barnack's ghost... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted April 16, 2014 Share #297 Posted April 16, 2014 I have just gotten off the phone with Leica Solms. A 14 year old boy named Dieter does the coding. He doesn't work directly for Leica but rather for his father, who cleans the bathrooms at Leica. Dieter had exams to sit for and then he was in big trouble for putting bleach in his the laundry machine when his sister's dark sports clothes (she's a big high school athlete, unlike Dieter) were in there to get even for a perceived slight. As a result he was grounded and couldn't come in to use the TRS-80 at Leica that they code firmware on. The story is developing. It really is a joke as you so aptly portrayed. 7k for a camera body and another $$$$$ for lenses, and we don't even have what a low end dSLR does. What's really amazing is that we keep buying. Leica is fully aware of this thread, yet nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted April 16, 2014 Share #298 Posted April 16, 2014 Does anyone know the scale of the software problem in the average camera today? How many lines? Cost per line? Is there an open-source OS or framework generally used? Open-source libraries? And while you're down there, do you have any links to books or webs describing the algorithms commonly used in cameras? It's a black box to me and seems to be covered less thoroughly than photo chemistry was in literature and forums; or maybe there's a whole world of information just out of sight. Thanks in anticipation... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krooj Posted April 16, 2014 Share #299 Posted April 16, 2014 Does anyone know the scale of the software problem in the average camera today? How many lines? Cost per line? Is there an open-source OS or framework generally used? Open-source libraries? And while you're down there, do you have any links to books or webs describing the algorithms commonly used in cameras? It's a black box to me and seems to be covered less thoroughly than photo chemistry was in literature and forums; or maybe there's a whole world of information just out of sight. Thanks in anticipation... It's a really opaque area, to be honest. Leica is using a platform from Fujitsu, and there are probably a lot of other camera manufacturers that are doing just the same. My guess is that when you license a platform like that, you end up in some position where you use vendor supplied code and binaries and fill in the rest yourself. This is likely the position Leica finds themselves in. There are probably opaque binaries provided under license by their respective IP holders, including and not limited to Fujitsu, and Leica's own code likely relies on those bits of code. Long story short, this type of situation is a mess and the depth to which you can tweak and play is usually limited by how big ($) of a customer you are to the vendor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zalozinski Posted April 16, 2014 Share #300 Posted April 16, 2014 Does anyone know the scale of the software problem in the average camera today? How many lines? Cost per line? Is there an open-source OS or framework generally used? Open-source libraries? And while you're down there, do you have any links to books or webs describing the algorithms commonly used in cameras? It's a black box to me and seems to be covered less thoroughly than photo chemistry was in literature and forums; or maybe there's a whole world of information just out of sight. Thanks in anticipation... You probably have two or three processors. A general purpose processor, probably based on an ARM core, which runs the UI (user interface) and manages the external interfaces: SD card, USB/1394, WiFi. A special purpose image processor, probably including the sensor. In terms of the software, the general purpose stuff can run on a Linux variant quite easily, and I believe that Samsung use Android (which is a Linux variant) in some cameras. The image processing part is well understood, and there are image processing libraries. I first used general purpose image libraries on an IBM 3081 mainframe back in in 1986 to do photo processing. That is not to belittle the work of the teams that develop cameras. There is a lot of new capability in modern cameras including for example grading of .jpgs to get the colour balance right for the type of image, based on a library of several thousand images stored in the camera (so adjusting the image for individual portrait in bad light, indoor snapshot, beach photo, landscape etc. based on recognising the image type). The challenges is that with some modern cameras, optical aberrations are not being corrected in the lens computation but in the camera firmware. Olympus has gone down this route. So conventional optical design is taking second place and the DSP software has become part of the optics. It is cheaper than building ASPH surfaces, and finding and using AD glass. It does't give you a lot of flexibility in the future though, or much interchangeability with other vendors. You can put a Thambar on an M, subject to availability. You will not be able to put an "camera-integrated-lens" on anything else, unless you are prepared to spend a lot of time in Lightroom/gimp. There is a good summary of the processing in a modern digital camera in the latest version of the old "Ilford Manual of Photography". The current version is "The Manual of Photography", 10th edition, by Elizabeth Allen and Sophie Triantaphillidou, Focal Press, 9 Nov 2009. (584 pages) It is expensive (GBP 33 to GBP 43 from Amazon) and worth every penny. By the way, there is an effort to create an open source camera. It looks interesting, but I have not looked at the project in detail: https://www.apertus.org/ Z Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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