Why?

[Ivan Muller]

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I have had a Leica for just over two years now and one thing I have noticed, especially here on this forum, is the almost fanatical loyalty to the brand.

 

Of course Leica is not alone, I have found other devotees of the other camera brands elsewhere, but by and large, on average, it seems to me that the typical Leica owner seems to be more sensitive to negative comments than owners of other brands....

 

So as a general question, not just limited to the Leica fanboys, why are we so loyal to brands?

 

More specifically what loyalty do we owe the Leica brand and why? Is it very clever marketing on their part? Is it just the way we humans, maybe more specifically men, are wired? Is it because most Leica owners are very wealthy and thus important people and thus never 'wrong'? is it because they cost so much and therefore must be 'better than the rest'? Or because after we have spend so much money on the tool we are loath to admit that it might be flawed? Does ownership of a Leica make us more superior and knowledgeable than others not so fortunate?

 

After all a camera is just a piece of metal and plastic and glass, made by some nameless fella in a factory in another country....why are some Leica owners so sensitive to negativity or criticism towards a consumer object?

 

Just wondering....

[Luke_Miller]

After all a camera is just a piece of metal and plastic and glass, made by some nameless fella in a factory in another country....why are some Leica owners so sensitive to negativity or criticism towards a consumer object?

 

I suspect that in some cases Leica owners view their camera bodies & lenses as status symbols. A reflection of their taste and economic position. Leica tends to encourage this I think with their boutique models. So criticism of Leica can be taken as criticism of themselves (or their choices) and they react accordingly.

[Paul J]

It's based on solid and fundamental design ethos i believe. They make interesting products from exceptional materials which are really very pleasing to use and actually give exceptional results. It's a niche tool and that's what people want. SOmething purposeful and unique. Something not everyone uses and also there's a mystique surrounding that tickles people curiosity. It' s freedom of mind with a deliberate shedding of clutter and gimmick - the things that dumb down the user and treat them like an idiot. You need to learn and master the instrument. Something you concquer and that's a reward and something in it's self. They make products that people get excited about and people become loyal to that.

[Michael Hiles]

I am with Paul J. Leicas seem to me to be one of the highlights of 20th century industrial design. The design continues to work. I have an M2 and M3, with a lot of what makes up the system (Visoflex, bellows, a range of lenses etc). I have not seen anything that works better. It only requires me to know a little about what I am doing, and then the cameras and the system support me totally.

[pgk]

After all a camera is just a piece of metal and plastic and glass, made by some nameless fella in a factory in another country....why are some Leica owners so sensitive to negativity or criticism towards a consumer object?

Many reasons, but my main sensitivity is because the negativity or criticism is all too often accompanied by ignorance, a clear case of using the wrong tool for the job in hand and an implied criticism that anyone would be stupid enough to use/own a Leica. Leicas are not for everyone, but for some of us they are excellent tools which deliver the results we want. I have Canons with 'duplicated' lenses but often produce 'better' images when using my Leicas. That's my bottom line.

[iedei]

an interesting question and points.

 

my brand loyalty to Leica stems from a few distinct points:

 

(A) quality --- construction, partly or all hand built, materials (brass, magnesium, etc)

 

( performance --- amazing lenses, rangefinder, simplicity in function

 

© beauty --- I think leica cameras and lenses are beautiful, aesthetically

 

I can't think of another camera company that is able to fulfil that criteria. Call me shallow, but I am an amateur photographer who does it out of interest and inspiration; not for money or financial reward. If I am going to spend my time enjoying this; then I would like to fulfil the set of criteria I would need to have a device nourish my inspiration.

 

there are other companies I respect like Ricoh/Pentax, Zeiss.....but none of them offer the variety, options, combinations which can be found within Leicas. Life is too short for me to use cameras which dont fascinate me (Canon, Nikon, etc). I will always concede that other cameras can take great photos-----but to me, photography is about more than just the photos------it's about the experience.

[dpitt]

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Finding a brand that actually tries to deliver the best possible solution regardless of cost and market demands is refreshing.In any sector these brands become more and more rare.

Usually these brands also come with more than average durability, price stability and service over a long period of time.

 

 

Leica is such a brand in fotography sector. Loyalty to the brand is easily explained when the brand offers unique advantages over the competitors:

- only one quality, the best, sustained over almost a century of being a market leader in its field

- longevity and support. More than 60 years on the M bodies and lenses. Commitment to 10 years for digital bodies. Even if suppliers make it impossible as seen with the coffee stain issue on M8, Leica tries their best to compensate users.

- low cost of ownership. Yes, I consider my Leica to be cheap! For example: I bought my M8 over 2 years ago for 1500 euro, if I sell it today it would probably fetch around 1200 euro easily.

If I had bought a second hand Canon 5D 2 years ago it would have set me back about 1500 Euro too.

A month ago I acquired a second hand Canon 5D with battery grip in good contion for 450 euro.

Owning the 5D would have cost me 1050 Euro compared to 300 Euro for the M8

 

 

Show me a brand that is better on the points above, and I will switch happily...

Until then its mainly Leica for me

[viramati]

Well if there was another FF RF camera on the market with lenses of similar quality then I would have a choice as to the brand but at the moment I don't

[payasam]

I have used Leicas since the mid 1960s and have owned one or more since 1985. My loyalty is not to the brand but to the design. I tried two C-V Bessas but did not get on with them. The same happened with a Canon P and a Canon 7. I accept that these are good cameras: but I work better with M Leicas because I am more comfortable with them.

[efreed2754]

My involvement goes back 40 years starting with a IIIf and then an M2R, M3, M6, M7, M9, SL and R8 plus a battery of glass.

 

Their Germanic focus on quality and functionality sets them apart. Used to love the feeling of just snapping the shutter in the old Ms, the sound and the feeling. The smoothness of the dual range Summicron was luxuriating just to focus or change apertures. No bodies or lenses match these tactile feelings from the 1950s

 

Perhaps most important was Leica's near death experience just a few years ago before getting the digital strategy right. Kodak never did respond to new technologies along with a myriad of other noble companies. There's nothing like almost losing something to remind one how special some thing or some one is.

[TomB_tx]

I've also owned Leicas since the 1960s. I have other cameras as well, and admit that I can get "just as good" results (depending on criteria) with other cameras. I also use Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses on my Leicas, and can't always tell which shots used Leica or other glass.

But I find I enjoy the process of taking pictures more with the rangefinder Leica's be they IIIf, M series, or CL. They function the way I want them to.

Some say that a camera is only a tool. Well, as an instrument maker & engineer I also appreciate good tools. I find the best craftsmen also appreciate and take care of their tools. Leica's stimulate one to do careful work.

I've also used Leicaflex and Leica R since the 1960s, and while they are also built well, I tend to get better results with some other classic 60s-70s SLRs because of how they handle. The rangefinder Leica's are unique in being a design that is ideally suited to a certain approach to photography. If the approach fits you - nothing else is like it.

[earleygallery]

Ivan,

 

I think you have hit on a number of reasons in your original post, although some are more related to the nature of the behaviour of some people, rather than brand loyalty.

 

I bought my first Leica when I was 16, my lllf, and use Leica and other brands. I'm not fanatical about Leica, but I do get irritated by the typical Leica-bashing we sometimes see on the forum (usually a troll who asks a loaded question about quality comparison between a Leica X and another brand).

 

Leica don't always get it right and I will criticise them when I think they have not met the standards they themselves set (M8 screen issue for example).

 

I think the Leica is more than just a brand of camera, it is also about an ethos, an approach to photography that we buy into when we choose a Leica.

 

If you look at other brands which attract similar loyalty, you tend to find the same uniqueness of approach. Maintaining that is vital for the companies concerned.

[250swb]

I have had a Leica for just over two years now and one thing I have noticed, especially here on this forum, is the almost fanatical loyalty to the brand.

 

I don't think it is fanatical loyalty to the brand any more than any other camera forum. What is jumped upon are untruths and just plain ignorance. An awful lot of your perceived 'fanboy' threads are started on the premise of half baked ideas that need to be corrected.

 

And when you say 'we' regarding your perception of Leica owners, count me out, thank you.

 

Steve

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I think we're just very protective. I'm relatively new to Leica's. Although I've used rangefinder over the last decade or so my first Leica was my M9 which now has a twin brother.

 

My impression is that we are perhaps more "fanatical" because it feels more like a personal attack. Making the leap to shoot Leica is a big one. It's relatively expensive, relatively uncommon and relatively brave that someone chooses Leica in the 21st century over the big players.

 

The expense and the choice make it feel a bit more personal. Plus I feel more connected to my Leica than every other camera I own/have owned. It really does feel like an extension of the way I see. My M9 is probably the most flawed camera I've ever owned. But it has soul and I love using it because and , in spite of, those flaws. You give up a lot to shoot a M. But you get other stuff back that you can't realise until you have a camera that you connect with.

 

Combine that with the relentless bagging we get its easy to bite when someone has a go at my Leica. Because they're having a go at my choice, my vision. Me.

 

Gordon

[Messsucherkamera]

I have had a Leica for just over two years now and one thing I have noticed, especially here on this forum, is the almost fanatical loyalty to the brand.

 

Of course Leica is not alone, I have found other devotees of the other camera brands elsewhere, but by and large, on average, it seems to me that the typical Leica owner seems to be more sensitive to negative comments than owners of other brands....

 

So as a general question, not just limited to the Leica fanboys, why are we so loyal to brands?

 

More specifically what loyalty do we owe the Leica brand and why? Is it very clever marketing on their part? Is it just the way we humans, maybe more specifically men, are wired?Is it because most Leica owners are very wealthy and thus important people and thus never 'wrong'? is it because they cost so much and therefore must be 'better than the rest'? Or because after we have spend so much money on the tool we are loath to admit that it might be flawed? Does ownership of a Leica make us more superior and knowledgeable than others not so fortunate?

 

After all a camera is just a piece of metal and plastic and glass, made by some nameless fella in a factory in another country....why are some Leica owners so sensitive to negativity or criticism towards a consumer object?

 

Just wondering....

 

I can't speak for others here, but as for yours truly - I may be many things but very wealthy and important are not two of them. In my view, owning a Leica does not make me - or anyone who owns one - superior. Just fortunate.

 

Leica owners/users are often stereotyped by those who do not own and use Leicas. So are Leica cameras. Stereotypes and sweeping generalizations are usually not accurate, and are almost always not 100% accurate.

 

Many who want a Leica cannot afford a new Leica. They sometimes react like a spoiled child, lashing out in anger and frustration at Leica and those who own Leicas and making themselves deeply unhappy over being denied a new Leica by the (supposed) sinister profiteers in Solms who twist their waxed moustaches and laugh like some sort of arch-villian.

 

After sulking for awhile, they will then go back to using their midrange DSLR and lenses, on which they spent about as much money as a nice used M camera (M3, M4, M4-P, M5, or M6) and a nice, used 28/2.8 or 50/2.8 would have cost them, all the while still hating Leica and Leica owners.

 

A lot of this Leica envy nonsense would evaporate if we humans could bring ourselves to stop judging everything based on money.

[pico]

[...]Something you concquer and that's a reward and something in it's self.

 

So very few conquer or even master the Leica they own, so I call on that one.

 

I also wonder why one would use the word conquer rather than master. Are we at war with hardware?

 

.

[pico]

Leica owners/users are often stereotyped by those who do not own and use Leicas.

 

In your dreams. The vast majority of people neither know nor care what a Leica is.

.

[lct]

"Cost", "money", wealthy", "ownership", "fortunate"... Envy is the root of all evil.

[jaapv]

But the vast majority of people do not stoop to Leica-bashing either

 

In your dreams. The vast majority of people neither know nor care what a Leica is.

.

[CalArts 99]

Of course Leica is not alone, I have found other devotees of the other camera brands elsewhere, but by and large, on average, it seems to me that the typical Leica owner seems to be more sensitive to negative comments than owners of other brands....

 

No, it's not just Leica and it's not only cameras. And this is also nothing new. There are hundreds of studies about brand ownership and loyalty (aka 'fanboyism.') But if you're truly interested then you can read the scholarly journal articles yourself. There are multiple takes on this issue.

 

Here is just one of many studies and interpretations but it seems to be what you are trying to imply with your thread.....

Journal of Consumer Psychology Volume 22, Issue 2, April 2012.

The effects of self-brand connections on responses of brand failure: A new look at the consumer-brand relationship. Cheng, White, and Chaplin (Hong Kong University; University of Illinois; Villanova University School of Business.)

Abstract

We argue that consumers with high self-brand connections (SBC) respond to negative brand information as they do to personal failure — they experience a threat to their positive self-view. After viewing negative brand information, high (vs. low) SBC consumers reported lower state self-esteem. Consumers with high SBC also maintained favorable brand evaluations despite negative brand information. However, when they completed an unrelated self-affirmation task, they lowered their brand evaluations the same as low SBC consumers. This finding suggests that high SBC consumers' reluctance to lower brand evaluation might be driven by a motivation to protect the self rather than the brand.

 

Nonetheless, I think the majority of people on this forum choose their photographic tools for a wide variety of personal reasons and are mature enough to not promote nor defend a product because of any self-esteem issues. Many of us own a wide variety of goods, including multiple brands of cameras. But if we truly enjoy using a particular product, we often like to share that enthusiasm. That's simply part of human nature.

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Hallo,

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