M8 shutter fault - get Leica to repair it for free

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

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Steve

 

I'm sure it won't come to that. I have faith in Leica to do what's right.

 

Daniel

[hoppyman]

Daniel please excuse the snipped quote for brevity as I am only responding on one point. I don't support your actions and methods on this.

 

 

If you wish to address your implied threat of legal action or negative publicity to the CEO or Product Manager, you may like to learn their names (and spell them correctly).

Since Customer Service is responding to your demand, I would think the head of that Division was the appropriate person to next consider action on your complaint. I have met this gentleman and received courteous, prompt and exceptional assistance.

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[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

Daniel please excuse the snipped quote for brevity as I am only responding on one point. I don't support your actions and methods on this.

 

 

 

If you wish to address your implied threat of legal action or negative publicity to the CEO or Product Manager, you may like to learn their names (and spell them correctly).

Since Customer Service is responding to your demand, I would think the head of that Division was the appropriate person to next consider action on your complaint. I have met this gentleman and received courteous, prompt and exceptional assistance.

 

Geoff, I've been told that my mail has been passed to "my colleague who is in charge for customers from UK" - no name was provided. Will let you know who this is when I know myself.

[jsrockit]

Since Customer Service is responding to your demand, I would think the head of that Division was the appropriate person to next consider action on your complaint. I have met this gentleman and received courteous, prompt and exceptional assistance.

 

Customer Service isn't too complicated... if you write a letter to the CEO or any executive, you will get a response from the Team that answer on behalf of the Executives. I've written to Steve Jobs and some type of executive team called me and took my complaint very seriously. Once things get escalated to this level, f ups don't really occur anymore... they either do what you want or take a hard stance and tell you they can't do anything else for you.

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

Agreed. My intention has always been that I'd ask Leica to fix the camera before doing anything else. I have just made sure where I stand from my rights as a customer before doing so. It's always good to know from what position you are coming before you start negotiations I should think.

 

As we now know my opportunity for recourse actually legally lies with my retailer but contacting Leica directly will hopefully get a far better result for everyone concerned.

 

I know some people are not happy that I am sharing my experience with others on the forum but I don't see a problem with that myself. Being open and honest about issues and the process I am following surely isn't really all that bad?

 

I am hitting a lot of opposition from people who have had good experiences from Leica as a brand and also potentially people who will blindly support or defend Leica as if they are a religion rather than a manufacturer of cameras!

 

Bizarrely, and completely off topic, Leica have somehow managed to start copying me in on bug incidents for their CMS system in the process of all of this. Including usernames and passwords of people who presumably use the system! My e-mail address has somehow ended up on a distribution list.

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

Edited February 4, 2010 by PhotoWebb.co.uk

[jsrockit]

 

Bizarrely, and completely off topic, Leica have somehow managed to start copying me in on bug incidents for their CMS system in the process of all of this. Including usernames and passwords of people who presumably use the system! My e-mail address has somehow ended up on a distribution list.

 

Wow, that's pretty bad. I would let the person who ends up helping you know that. It could score you some points.

[Shootist]

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Sure, it is my opinion, but a look around the internet will let you know that there is a trend, of sorts, which backs up my opinion. A search for "M7 shutter fault" brings up relatively few hits for the M7 (but still some for the M8 lol). My M8 has worked great, but I still think that any day an expensive repair is bound to happen.

 

I don't think the poster's motives are based on anything more than if this is an issue that goes beyond his one particular unit, and there is supporting evidence to allow this conclusion, then Leica should handle it as a "defect" and not as just routine maintenance through use of the camera.

 

I think so many people are riding Leica's dick that they can't even fathom that Leica could be at fault for something like this... that's pathetic. They make mistakes as all companies do. Apparently, the choice of shutter in the M8 is one of those mistakes and it should be recognized.

 

 

I agree with you 100%. Especially about those that support Leica even though this shutter fault is a common event with the M8. There is something clearly wrong with some M8 shutters. Most of these shutter faults are reported on cameras that have only 10-20%, or less, of the rated shutter actuations which is 100,000.

[Shootist]

Agreed. My intention has always been that I'd ask Leica to fix the camera before doing anything else. I have just made sure where I stand from my rights as a customer before doing so. It's always good to know from what position you are coming before you start negotiations I should think.

 

As we now know my opportunity for recourse actually legally lies with my retailer but contacting Leica directly will hopefully get a far better result for everyone concerned.

 

I know some people are not happy that I am sharing my experience with others on the forum but I don't see a problem with that myself. Being open and honest about issues and the process I am following surely isn't really all that bad?

 

I am hitting a lot of opposition from people who have had good experiences from Leica as a brand and also potentially people who will blindly support or defend Leica as if they are a religion rather than a manufacturer of cameras!

 

Bizarrely, and completely off topic, Leica have somehow managed to start copying me in on bug incidents for their CMS system in the process of all of this. Including usernames and passwords of people who presumably use the system! My e-mail address has somehow ended up on a distribution list.

 

Cheers

 

Daniel

 

I commend your actions.

[okram]

I commend your actions.

 

+1

[pgk]

I am hitting a lot of opposition from people who have had good experiences from Leica as a brand and also potentially people who will blindly support or defend Leica as if they are a religion rather than a manufacturer of cameras

Let me explain something. After owning my M8 for some months I managed to drop it - the first time I have ever dropped a camera in 25 years. It landed on concrete on the lens which suffered rather more than the camera. In fact the camera did not have so much as a mark on it. It had though developed a rattle and was actually fully repaired under the passport warranty scheme (unlike the lens which my insurers paid for the repair of) by Leica and given a 12 month warranty from the repair date. So my repair experience with Leica was excellent.

 

The point which I was trying to make is that you appear to be blaming Leica for a shutter failure based on the fact that you have read about other shutter failures on the web when it could so easily be down to a cause such as a drop and consequent physical damage, whether visible or not. If you had sent your camera to Leica and had a high quote but no explanation for the shutter failure then you would be perfectly within your rights to try to find out what had caused it and take things from there although your first recourse in the UK is to the dealer from whom you bought the camera. As it is you appear to be making substantial assumptions and this is what many people are probably finding unacceptable.

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

The point which I was trying to make is that you appear to be blaming Leica for a shutter failure based on the fact that you have read about other shutter failures on the web when it could so easily be down to a cause such as a drop and consequent physical damage, whether visible or not. If you had sent your camera to Leica and had a high quote but no explanation for the shutter failure then you would be perfectly within your rights to try to find out what had caused it and take things from there although your first recourse in the UK is to the dealer from whom you bought the camera. As it is you appear to be making substantial assumptions and this is what many people are probably finding unacceptable.

 

Just to be clear the camera has been well looked after. Whilst I do think that this problem is happening more frequently than it should from what I have seen here and on other forums there is one simple point:

 

Whether or not this happens to one camera or several thousand it is still not in accordance with the guarantee that Leica themselves gave when they marketed the M8. They, and I quote, "guarantee decades of reliable functioning". These statements are still live on their site today as you can see from the screenshot below:

 

 

Everything else is irrelevant once this point has been made.

 

The reason I did not return the camera before sorting this out is because there is a considerable expense in returning the camera, with insurance to Solms. I do not have money to throw away and should Leica decide to charge me €700, which they claimed they would do from their original e-mail, I am not in the financial position to proceed with a repair of such magnitude at this time.

 

Hopefully this clarifies what you are getting at.

 

Daniel

Edited February 4, 2010 by PhotoWebb.co.uk

[Revdockj]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. . . .There have been numerous threads on this forum the last two years or so, recounting the exact problem the OP is having and the shutter fault was not caused by abuse to the camera!! The issue, here, is not camera abuse--the issue is a shutter failing at 10,000 or so actuations, when it is rated for 100,000. Just because the camera is beyond warranty, if the shutter is failing with only 10% of its rated actuations, then something is just not right. I would love Leica to share just how many cameras we're talking about, here.

 

Ken

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

... second hand and ask again for a first hand warranty without having paid Leica a cent....?

 

Yes perhaps they will agree on this. And perhaps they will be called greedy again and again.

 

Sorry, missed this one.....

 

Had you, for example, bought a second hand Toyota which now turns out to potentially have a faulty brake pedal, accelerator - or both - would you expect Toyota to say "Sorry, you bought second hand so it's not our problem"?

[cocker]

Wake me up when this is over please.

[samuco]

I commend your actions.

 

+1

[UliWer]

 

Had you, for example, bought a second hand Toyota which now turns out to potentially have a faulty brake pedal, accelerator - or both - would you expect Toyota to say "Sorry, you bought second hand so it's not our problem"?

 

I would not expect Toyota or any other producer to accept the demands of somebody campaigning with "I want..., I want..., I want..." and on the basis that he or she tells everbody that something is "potentially" faulty.

[farnz]

Daniel,

 

"... Meticulous manufacture and careful assembly guarantee decades of reliable functioning to give the photographer as many years of enjoyment with his Leica M as possible. ..."

 

A competent defence lawyer would drive a herd of buses through this advertising puff because it's designed to be non-specific.

 

Consider the logic: if the text had stated "Leica guarantees decades of reliable functioning etc" then there might be grounds for a claim but as it stands the only claim can be against "Meticulous manufacture and careful assembly", which is of course not possible to lodge a claim against.

 

Leica only needs to explain that it uses its best endeavours to provide 'meticulous manufacture and careful assembly' but does not guarantee 'meticulous manufacture and careful assembly' for it not to be liable.

 

If this was to be your grounds for a legal claim against Leica then it would fail.

 

Pete.

[Guest Chris M]

Well, If you count up all the registered shutter faults and problems from the very beginning, and subtract that from the total M8 classics made, (I don't have specific #'s) though, and lets not forget about the other owners who chose (NOT) to speak up about it because they where so embarassed to let friends and family no, I'd have to say IMHO that we do have a bit of a problem here, just like toyota, but on a smaller scale?? maybe?? actually nobody no's except for Leica about the #'s of faulty shutters from the original classic M8's, But at $5,000.00 for a body only, and the amount of discussion and crying and downtime and extra costs to those who are more passive, I believe Leica OWES a (FINAL EXPLANATION) to all of us who currently own these Classic M8 bodies that were purchased new or used that are registered with them. Like, Yes we at Leica do acknowledge there has been an unusual aberition with our Classic M8 shutters, Therefore we will be more than happy to fix this shutter problem at no cost to the consumers. You must have registered your camera with in 30 days of original purchase and if camera was purchased used, you need to provide as much info about camera. Thank for your time. Thats what we can only hope fore, but don't hold your breath.

 

JUST MY 2 cents,

 

chris m.

[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

I would not expect Toyota or any other producer to accept the demands of somebody campaigning with "I want..., I want..., I want..." and on the basis that he or she tells everbody that something is "potentially" faulty.

 

The reason I use the term 'I want' is to that it is clear to Leica what 'I want' - simple!

 

On the subject of something potentially being faulty the point I am making here is that Toyota are recalling all of their cars because the pedals are 'potentially' faulty. I don't think anyone is saying that all of their cars _are_ faulty but they are having to recall them all just in case - due to the nature of the fault being a danger to people's safety.

 

The word potentially doesn't apply to my camera though. It _is_ faulty - on a number of levels!

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[Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk]

Daniel,

 

"... Meticulous manufacture and careful assembly guarantee decades of reliable functioning to give the photographer as many years of enjoyment with his Leica M as possible. ..."

 

A competent defence lawyer would drive a herd of buses through this advertising puff because it's designed to be non-specific.

 

Consider the logic: if the text had stated "Leica guarantees decades of reliable functioning etc" then there might be grounds for a claim but as it stands the only claim can be against "Meticulous manufacture and careful assembly", which is of course not possible to lodge a claim against.

 

Leica only needs to explain that it uses its best endeavours to provide 'meticulous manufacture and careful assembly' but does not guarantee 'meticulous manufacture and careful assembly' for it not to be liable.

 

If this was to be your grounds for a legal claim against Leica then it would fail.

 

Pete.

 

The point is simply that my camera has not lived up to their claims by a long shot. There is a matter of integrity here on the part of Leica. It would not be right for them to avoid responsibility in the way you are suggesting - do you think?

 

In what they say they are setting an expectation that the camera will be extremely durable and long lasting with me, as a potential customer - On that basis I purchased an M8 and my camera has not lived up to that expectation.

 

Daniel