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M8 shutter fault - get Leica to repair it for free


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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk

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How far is Dunfermline from Elgin? A couple of hours drive provided it's not snowing?

 

Why not drive up there and speak with Messrs ffordes face to face? Would make it much easier.

 

It might come to that Andy, although a 4 hour drive, round trip, doesn't particularly excite me. Probably best for me to await a response from Leica now that I've contacted them before making any other moves.

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
Toyota have established that there is a manufacturing fault. You have not. You have looked at an Internet forum and decided there is a problem. That's not the same thing.

 

I've looked at my camera and established that there's a problem.....

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I don't know anything about Toyota but I think you need to be careful not to try and compare a safety recall to anything else.

 

The simple fact is that you want a working camera. But you don't have a warranty for the camera and so you should pay to have it repaired and just accept the consequences of your own actions. You bought a used camera and have been unlucky. Hundreds of people are not unlucky - their used M8's soldier on for tens of thousands of images giving sterling service. Yours didn't and I am genuinely sorry that that turned out to be the case - it's never nice to see someone have a problem with a product, especially when it's one that we all share a passion for, but at the end of the day if Leica do repair your camera for nothing then to me that says that I have an indefinite warranty on all my equipment just because I expect that it should remain serviceable until I say so.

 

Just out of interest - at what point during the life cycle of your already two and a half year old item did you expect to have to take responsibility for its upkeep?

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
I don't know anything about Toyota but I think you need to be careful not to try and compare a safety recall to anything else.

 

The simple fact is that you want a working camera. But you don't have a warranty for the camera and so you should pay to have it repaired and just accept the consequences of your own actions. You bought a used camera and have been unlucky. Hundreds of people are not unlucky - their used M8's soldier on for tens of thousands of images giving sterling service. Yours didn't and I am genuinely sorry that that turned out to be the case - it's never nice to see someone have a problem with a product, especially when it's one that we all share a passion for, but at the end of the day if Leica do repair your camera for nothing then to me that says that I have an indefinite warranty on all my equipment just because I expect that it should remain serviceable until I say so.

 

Just out of interest - at what point during the life cycle of your already two and a half year old item did you expect to have to take responsibility for its upkeep?

 

Julian, you're missing the point. Based upon Leica's own marketing literature the expectation was set with me that the camera would last much longer than it has. I bought the product on this basis.

 

Finally, any warranty is in addition to my statutory rights. I have a right to expect my camera to last longer than it has. Any challenge against this right could be defeated by what Leica say about their product. It's that simple...

 

To put it a different way, do you think people might be stunned to hear that a camera that retailed for almost £4,000 only lasted 2 and a half years? Even without Leica's 'guarantee' of 'decades of reliable operation' this wouldn't be acceptable to most people surely?

Edited by PhotoWebb.co.uk
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I've looked at my camera and established that there's a problem.....

 

I had a 1991 BMW that had a problem in 2005 with the clutch. I don't recall complaining about it to BMW.

 

The whole basis of your attempt to have Leica pay for your repair isn't that you alone have a problem, it's that there is a fundamental manufacturing flaw in the shutter. You have absolutely no evidence to support that claim.

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Julian, you're missing the point. Based upon Leica's own marketing literature the expectation was set with me that the camera would last much longer than it has. I bought the product on this basis.

 

But, they never said that. This is merely your own expectation, not a promise on the part of Leica. You have been unlucky. Life's like that.

 

You bought a second hand product, with limited, if any, warranty. The warranty was provided by the reseller, not Leica. That warranty has expired. If you had made a contract with ffordes to say "I will buy this second hand camera on the condition that you warrant it for 10 years" then you may have a reasonable claim. But, from what I have read, you didn't.

 

If 50% (say) of ALL M8s had premature shutter failures, then you might be on to something. As it is...

Edited by andybarton
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It might come to that Andy, although a 4 hour drive, round trip, doesn't particularly excite me.

 

Then call them on the telephone instead. I suspect you haven't contacted them because you feel you know what their response would be.

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Then call them on the telephone. I suspect you haven't contacted them because you feel you know what their response would be.

 

Let me guess, 'Contact Leica.'?

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The Leica brochure is just advertising puffery as well you know!

 

But what I don't understand (and it's not actually aimed just at you - it's the preposterous nature of these statutory rights) is why any business bothers to talk about warranty times?

 

When you were stood at the counter you made a deal - six month warranty. Now you're backing out of that deal and want more. If you had wanted more cover you should have asked for it, and then you'd have paid a bit more and the camera could have been warranted for longer.

 

So - when DID you expect to have to take responsibility for the camera?

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
I had a 1991 BMW that had a problem in 2005 with the clutch. I don't recall complaining about it to BMW.

 

The whole basis of your attempt to have Leica pay for your repair isn't that you alone have a problem, it's that there is a fundamental manufacturing flaw in the shutter. You have absolutely no evidence to support that claim.

 

The basis of my claim has nothing to do with anyone else's camera. Leica lead prospective buyers of Leica M cameras to believe that they will provide decades of reliable operation. My camera has offered no such thing.

 

Aside from the fact that it is currently unuseable due to some fault or other being diagnosed as a Shutter Fault it is also extremely buggy and can be unreliable.

 

That's it...

 

Whether or not this has happened to other people, which we know full well it has, doesn't actually affect my claim in any way, shape or form.

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
The Leica brochure is just advertising puffery as well you know!

 

But what I don't understand (and it's not actually aimed just at you - it's the preposterous nature of these statutory rights) is why any business bothers to talk about warranty times?

 

When you were stood at the counter you made a deal - six month warranty. Now you're backing out of that deal and want more. If you had wanted more cover you should have asked for it, and then you'd have paid a bit more and the camera could have been warranted for longer.

 

So - when DID you expect to have to take responsibility for the camera?

 

I knew I had statutory rights before I bought a Leica M8 and I also knew that the guarantee provided by the shop was in addition to these rights. I didn't buy the camera on the condition that I waived these rights as a consumer - I don't really understand what you're talking about.

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In that case, sue ffordes, for selling you a camera which is not of merchantable quality. Those are your statutory rights. You have no statutory rights against Leica as you have no contract with them.

 

Simple.

 

Just because you can't be bothered to phone or visit the people with whom you have a contract, doesn't mean that you can go after someone else.

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
I have no idea, call them and let us know,

 

As previously stated I think it will be best to wait for a response from Leica before I do anything else.

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Aside from the fact that it is currently unuseable due to some fault or other being diagnosed as a Shutter Fault it is also extremely buggy and can be unreliable.

 

So are you saying that even if the shutter was working you would see it as 'unfit for purpose'?

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I find your argument unconvincing I'm afraid.

 

The fact you are not the original purchaser and therefore cannot vouch for the reasonable treatment of the camera throughout its life, the fact that you do not have either a manufacturer warranty or even an in date dealer warranty, the fact that the item is more than 2 years old and the fact that the manufacturer operates a service/upgrade/rewarrant facility which you have chosen not to take up prior to the failure - all this weighs in the direction of a lot of wasted time and negative energy that will lead to nothing but hating of the camera in the end. And I think this will probably be the case regardless of whether you manage to strong-arm your way to getting it repaired free.

 

If you could just hear yourself and the implications of what you are asking the manufacturer to do for you - you need to go and have a word with yourself!

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Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk
Why? You contract isn't with Leica it's with Ffordes. This has been mentioned many times.

 

Come one man. I've already answered this question.

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