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M8 ; The Good The Bad The Ugly

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stunsworth

stunsworth

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I had to reread the above three times and all I get is that apparently Japanes and Leica (German) cultures, religion, race are all different .....I am 50% German and I agree.

 

Frank, maybe you should have restricted yourself to the first five words of the final paragraph as they make the point that the original poster was trying to make. Quite frankly you are not in a position to criticise the clarity of writing of others.

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Guest BigSplash

Guest BigSplash

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:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Jaapv I am bone fide and am passionate about Leica. I resent the continued personal attacks an attempts to discredit me. All I am trying to do is identify areas for User driven inputs to achieve improvements at Leica after sales support and indeed in the Leica offering.

My view is that it is surely a key objective of any Forum to provide constructive feedback as part of a continous improvement program that a quality conscious mfg like Leica would want to see.

 

You (and others) seem to defend a system that features:

> Special treatment of fast turn around for Pros, (Illegal?)

> Leicas service philosophy is to effect repairs using a few highly skilled craftsman and it takes time ...many months for amateurs and replace with a cheap new module.

> A philosophy to rework things rather than bin them

> 30,000 interventions a year with the Leica philosophy

> The virtue that the Leica M8 is handcrafted and difficult to disassemble compared to other cameras that apparently use "modular, cheap, throw away technology,

> Ability to have old cameras (egM5) fixed ...we should be pleased and accept poor service

> Two sets of spare parts stores at Leica...the frequently used and the vintage store,

> Long lead times when there is a single missing part.

 

Some of us actually think that the above approach could be progressively improved and there are several postings that agree with me. It is of course entirely up to Leica how they do it, but if we as users accept the unacceptable why should they address it and improve in any way?.

 

I accept that Canon, Nikon etc are no angels and are not always performing as A1 but surely one should compare with the best of breed for each parameter. If I were making cars I would not compare myself to GM, Chrysler, B.Leyland or indeed in electronics: Plessey, Marconi, GEC, Ferranti , BICC, English Electric. I would find an obvious winner or calcualte a theoretical goal and go for it.

 

The goal of 6 months for any camera repair is in my view not good enough

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efftee

efftee

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I had to reread the above three times and all I get is that apparently Japanes and Leica (German) cultures, religion, race are all different .....I am 50% German and I agree.

 

What has that got to do with meeting client expectations for fast after sales service or the usage of flexible printed circuit boards with surface mount componentry?

 

Why the personal attack?

 

I am not attacking you; not even attacking anything at all. Not speaking on behalf of anyone, I just don't subscribe to your point of view, which I have every right to, just as you have a right to your expectations. However, just because you are entitled to an expectation doesn't mean it's your right to claim. You don't know it all, I don't know it all, no one knows it all so this whole debate is moot beyond a certain point and I find it hard to believe that with your implied intelligence and experience as a human being, you do not know that.

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stunsworth

stunsworth

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Efftee, I can't see any insult either. The only thing I can think of is that Frank read...

 

"Frank Frank, what can I say? I am assuming you are a bona fide person and not just out making fools of us."

 

...but didn't understand what was being said - i.e. he thought you were saying he's not a boa fide person. Which of course is the opposite to what you actually wrote.

 

I think that as a CEO - the CV is available on the internet - Frank is used to issuing commands and having them followed, he's not used to people disagreeing with him and he'is used to getting his own way.

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efftee

efftee

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Jaapv I am bone fide and am passionate about Leica. I resent the continued personal attacks an attempts to discredit me. All I am trying to do is identify areas for User driven inputs to achieve improvements at Leica after sales support and indeed in the Leica offering.

My view is that it is surely a key objective of any Forum to provide constructive feedback as part of a continous improvement program that a quality conscious mfg like Leica would want to see.

 

You (and others) seem to defend a system that features:

> Special treatment of fast turn around for Pros, (Illegal?)

> Leicas service philosophy is to effect repairs using a few highly skilled craftsman and it takes time ...many months for amateurs and replace with a cheap new module.

> A philosophy to rework things rather than bin them

> 30,000 interventions a year with the Leica philosophy

> The virtue that the Leica M8 is handcrafted and difficult to disassemble compared to other cameras that apparently use "modular, cheap, throw away technology,

> Ability to have old cameras (egM5) fixed ...we should be pleased and accept poor service

> Two sets of spare parts stores at Leica...the frequently used and the vintage store,

> Long lead times when there is a single missing part.

 

Some of us actually think that the above approach could be progressively improved and there are several postings that agree with me. It is of course entirely up to Leica how they do it, but if we as users accept the unacceptable why should they address it and improve in any way?.

 

I accept that Canon, Nikon etc are no angels and are not always performing as A1 but surely one should compare with the best of breed for each parameter. If I were making cars I would not compare myself to GM, Chrysler, B.Leyland or indeed in electronics: Plessey, Marconi, GEC, Ferranti , BICC, English Electric. I would find an obvious winner or calcualte a theoretical goal and go for it.

 

The goal of 6 months for any camera repair is in my view not good enough

 

You are relentless and tenacious, I will give you that, Frank. Not as lucid and eloquent, but then, it gives me the shivers if you were all that too. Truly, you are wasting yourself in here. You should really stop this tirade and go save the world. Really.

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lct

lct

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...I think that as a CEO - the CV is available on the internet - Frank is used to issuing commands and having them followed, he's not used to people disagreeing with him and he'is used to getting his own way.

Don't know what kind of CEO Frank can be but some of them think that they know everything or that what they ignore is not important enough to be learnt. They don't read what you write, they don't listen to what you say and they give you advices on matters you know much better than they do. I count some of them among my clients. They give me the feeling to pay me to tell them that they did not need me at all.

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Guest BigSplash

Guest BigSplash

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For one thing Frank you sure have a lot to say.

So much so that I very rarely read your posts, they are just to long, verbose.

 

You really should try to read them and maybe add something.

 

Just today I readd that some people find them so brilliant that they believe that if I could be more lucid I would be giving them the shivers! Others want me to get personally involved with saving the world (I'll leave that to others however the Leica challenge is much more important), Nicole even compares this thread to the Iran situation.

 

I am indeed flattered but I am getting fed up with this thread and shall shortly start a new one more focussed on actualy using the M8 and taking photos with it. In parrallel I have been doing this and I am very impressed with the results. Talking to Brett I have learned that with his experience applied it is possible to achieve more than impressive reults.

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jaapv

jaapv

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Don't know what kind of CEO Frank can be but some of them think that they know everything or that what they ignore is not important enough to be learnt. They don't read what you write, they don't listen to what you say and they give you advices on matters you know much better than they do. I count some of them among my clients. They give me the feeling to pay me to tell them that they did not need me at all.

What is your specialty? :)

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bill

bill

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Bye Bye "SpyLaw 4", and Bye Bye "Bill" .

 

Bless...

 

You don't really think I will let you have free rein to bore the Forum to death do you?

 

I have to say, though, you are the least entertaining or imaginative troll that we have had around here since Helios. I'd be intrigued to hear what Martin has to say - I'm well aware that everyone, up to VP level and beyond, has their web presence monitored to ensure that they don't bring the company into disrepute, and to make sure that they are not misusing equipment or VPN time.

 

Interesting also to note that you are not above the odd personal attack yourself now that you have been busted.

 

I'll watch with interest.

 

Bill

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Guest BigSplash

Guest BigSplash

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Bless...

 

You don't really think I will let you have free rein to bore the Forum to death do you?

 

I have to say, though, you are the least entertaining or imaginative troll that we have had around here since Helios. I'd be intrigued to hear what Martin has to say - I'm well aware that everyone, up to VP level and beyond, has their web presence monitored to ensure that they don't bring the company into disrepute, and to make sure that they are not misusing equipment or VPN time.

 

Interesting also to note that you are not above the odd personal attack yourself now that you have been busted.

 

I'll watch with interest.

 

Bill

 

Busted....

 

Bill I do not know what you mean .......are you referring to the Kennedy and Steve (Jobs?) comment and allegation of fraud.....I took this as yet another forum joke. I have not done any fraud, nor am I aware that my cv is freely available and posted on the internet as has also been suggested.

 

Who is Martin?

 

What is all this about bringing the company into disrepute? I am passionate about Leica, and I love the M8 and my lenses. I have repeatedly said that I hope that the company grows etc and this forum by being active, specific, objective and constructive is a great way to help achieve that goal.

 

Naturally that means objective critical critique which is what I have done I hope. Personal attacks and one word comments is not a way forward.

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Guest BigSplash

Guest BigSplash

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What is your specialty? :)

 

If you mean speciality as a CEO it is turning around sick high tech companies by looking at the issues, listening to the workforce and clients and acting on this to effect change as opposed to financial engineering. (I have done 7 very successfully in the last decade and had one liquidation that actually was also deemed successful by the investors as I saved them a lot of money, and returned some of their IPR.)

 

I could say much more jaapv and off line will do so if you are interested. Here I am sensitive to being accused of touting for work which I have repeatedly said I am not doing as this would be inapproriate and it is is not the correct forum in any case.

 

If you mean in photography ....I guess it is travel and tourist photography with some activity in the area of photographing my daughters sculptures ...which actually is more about managing lighting than snapping a photo.

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jaapv

jaapv

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Jaapv I am bone fide

 

Aye, a bona fide troll and impostor.....Just copying and pasting from a LinkedIn profile is not quite enough to be convincing, you see.

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Guest BigSplash

Guest BigSplash

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Really, there is no need for another thread. Just go and use the damn thing.

 

Done that been there but when you get guidance from someone like Brett it hammered home how much I have to learn and what the camera can do that is not in the manual.

 

Specifcs so far:

> How to squeeze more from the M8 camera by setting white balance to manual and using a white card ... this is good for some things but has a danger that it is like changing the film type for every single shot, as is the Auto function

> How to obtain uniformity of colour balance within a given shoot by selecting 5800K Kelvin white balance

> keeping the camera away from the eye when shooting people at weddings or kids at play ......it adds a new dimension for me at least as it is discrete and film cost is not an issue of course.

> Use of correct exposure and avoiding under exposure at ISO 2500 as noise is then a real issue.

> Using ISO 2500 without flash with a Noctilux in late evening at a reception or restaurant and get the feel of slightly grainy results which is a charm rather than a negative ...it actually looks like an evening shot.

 

I do not know why you would not want a thread on photographic issues like these in a Leica Forum as the points are not covered in the manual.

 

I learned a lot from Brett who I admire greatly. Just look at his photos on his web site or in LeicaFotografie (Wedding and Goodwood Racing). With essentially the 75mm and 21mm lenses only he displays variety of shot and absolute pin prick focussing on the subject with the background cutely out of focus. I at least am humble enough to know with his help I have already improved my technique, but I still have a long way to go from excellent snapshots to excellent Leica photographs......there is a difference in my mind.

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