M8 shutter 'kick' - fact or fiction?

[elansprint72]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have just installed two heavy duty rat traps in our garden shed. One has 5 grams of home-made Toscana ham attached to its killer arm, the other one has 5 grams of barely edible Safeway bologna sausage. Next to the traps is my M8, sitting on top of an electronic scale and its shutter release is rigged to fire at the exact moment of the ‘kill’. This way we’ll have both queries answered - whether the rat trap jumps (and how high) and what is the change in weight of the M8 at the instant of the exposure. As an added bonus, I’ll find out about the culinary preferences of the neighbourhood’s rodents……..

 

 

 

Best,

 

Jan

First sensible post I've read in weeks.

[photoshutter]

I feel a kick too, much more than with my 1dII and 24-70, with m8 it is very hard to shot at 1/15, with canon not a problem, heavier and longer camera-lens absorbs much better

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[diogenis]

By the way, you are aware of an app for the iphone called night camera, which can also be called "steady assist" ? What it does is, it takes the photo when its accelerometers sense there is no movement. A brilliant idea, for night photography in general and for the speeds we are talking.

[jaapv]

I feel a kick too, much more than with my 1dII and 24-70, with m8 it is very hard to shot at 1/15, with canon not a problem, heavier and longer camera-lens absorbs much better

If this is serious, I think you need a lesson in camera-holding. Experienced rangefinderusers often shoot down to 1/4 or even sometimes 1/2 with a 35 or 28.

[Peter Lea]

Jaap, and everyone else, how do you get your really low shutter speed shots sharp? I can't get mine below about 1/30th reliably. I think you mentioned somewhere using a camera grip and leather?

Many thanks

Peter

[diogenis]

Peter, first it depends on the lens you are using.

Next on the magnification/cropping you do.

You should hold the camera in a way that it will not give you muscle tire. Because if you get that, or if you wait in an awkward position for too long, you will eventually start to shake. You should hold your breath before the shot too. Obviously, light cameras, have the advantage here, because they dont stress your hand. Try holding 1kilo of a weight with your arm extended and still for more than 20 s and you will see how you will tremble in the end It's more a mater of assuming a more relaxed and natural body position, holding your breath, and carefully handling of that shutter button than anything else, is what I believe (Jaap, correct me if I m wrong) You should be able to achieve easily 1/8th with a 28mm, harder a 1/4th but still nice shots if you dont magnify a lot... 1/2th a bit hard for me at least

[Max Alfy]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Just my 2 cts: I systematically use the 2 seconds self-timer, at any speed. It avoids having to stress on staying steady, and gives enough time to make shure the horizon is straignt even after pushing on the release.

 

Max

[diogenis]

that one is also a nice tip. The problem is stressing rather than anything else, and of course weight.

[jaapv]

I hate shutter delays - try and shoot action with a Digilux2 and AF....

[danyves]

At 1/8th or 1/4th, hold your breath.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Breathing -- I use a technique I read about in a photo mag many years ago.

 

Take the breath, then let about 1/3 of it out and hold, take picture. [Then gulp air.... ]

[diogenis]

I hate shutter delays - try and shoot action with a Digilux2 and AF....

 

Yes these are nasty, and can lead to frustration so easy. Especially when you compare them to a highly responsive M8. For action shots you need the shutter release, but I can't imagine action+night shots: you will get blur in the end

[Shootist]

What you need to do is time the shutter release so it falls between hartbeats. Just like when shooting a high powered rifle with mega X scope.

[t024484]

Most things in live can be calculated, so let's give it a try.

 

1) We have F = m*a ( Force in Newton = Mass*Acceleration), so this Force is what one is feeling when the shutter is fired.

2) S = U*t+0.5*a*t^2 or in wording, the distance travelled over a period of time t is equal to the initial speed U*t + 0.5*acceleration*t^2

 

So starting with 2), let's say the distance travelled is 25mm, or 25exp-3 meter, and the time it takes is 1/500 of a second. The initial speed or U is zero.

Acceleration is then a = 25exp-3*2*500^2 = 12.500m/sec^2 (Wow!)

Now we can calculate the force F if we know the weight of the shutter.

Let's assume the shutter weight is 1/100 gram or 1exp-5 Kilogram, although including springs etc it is probably more than this.

 

F = 1exp-5 * 12.500 = 0.125 Newton. equivalent to roughly 12.5 gram.

A force of 12.5 gram in a body+battery+Lens weighting at least 800 gram is very well possible to feel.

You will not be able to measure this on a scale unless you can take weight samples 1/1000 of a second apart, since the whole movement takes only 1/500 of a second.

 

Hans

[giordano]

What you need to do is time the shutter release so it falls between hartbeats. Just like when shooting a high powered rifle with mega X scope.

 

I still can't work out how to synchronise my heartbeat with a moving subject:(:

[johnalex141r]

If this is serious, I think you need a lesson in camera-holding. Experienced rangefinderusers often shoot down to 1/4 or even sometimes 1/2 with a 35 or 28.

 

Hah! I can do up to 24 seconds no problem! Heres' one taken during a snow fall, while I was a passenger in a car! I didn't even need to wear my glasses!! Speaking of which, where are those glasses? I'm as blind as a bat without them....

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[SJP]

See!!!!!!!!!

 

We need Image Stabilisation for at least 24s handheld. I demand that Leica provides this ASAP in a free firmware upgrade.

[wparsonsgisnet]

What you need to do is time the shutter release so it falls between hartbeats. Just like when shooting a high powered rifle with mega X scope.

 

There are plenty of images that affect my heartbeat.

[Olsen]

Those who claim that M8 produces blured files do to a shaky shutter must document this by showing us the results. On files. The M8 is remarkable, as most modern cameras are today, in that it is fully possible to hand held it down to 1/8 and 1/4 and still get keepers. That said, it is also remarable how Canon D-SLRs (and Nikon, I am sure) have improved on this in the latest years.

 

Still, I feel this 'kick' from my M8. It occurs in the end of the exposure sequence. So, it can't have any impact on the exposed file. I don't think modern magnet shutters are 'cocked' as such. Just transported back to 'start' position. It is either this, or the last shutter reaching the end, and closing the sequence that makes this kick. Don't worry about it.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[vanhulsenbeek]

.............................

Still, I feel this 'kick' from my M8. It occurs in the end of the exposure sequence. So, it can't have any impact on the exposed file. I don't think modern magnet shutters are 'cocked' as such. Just transported back to 'start' position. It is either this, or the last shutter reaching the end, and closing the sequence that makes this kick. Don't worry about it.

 

Yes, but it bothered me sick and I always was afraid pictures weren't sharp. After years with M6 and M7. So I upgraded (sorry: at the old price; I do feel some sort of guilt) and I am very happy with the M8u now.