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M8 shutter 'kick' - fact or fiction?


stunsworth

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I've seen reports of people complaining about the 'kick' of the M8 shutter preventing them from taking low speed shots.

 

It's a long time since I studied Newtonian physics, but I would have thought that the difference in mass between the shutter's moving parts and the camera body/lens would make any such effect negligable - even taking the high speed of those parts into account.

 

Any thoughts? Can the shutter really move the body suffucient for there to be a visible effect, or are any low speed problems more likely to lie in the way the shutter button is pressed?

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Steve there is a kick to any camera when the shutter fires. I feel it on my M2, M4-2, CL and M8.

With the M2 & M4-2 it is a horizontal kick and the M8 & CL it is vertical.

I don't think the M8 is any better or worse then the film M's and I'm not certain if it is the shutter or the rewind action that causes most of it on the M8.

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There is a kick of sorts.

 

Having read these comments I placed the camera on an electronic scale with an Elmarit 28 on it.

 

With the lens pointing forward it weighed 852 grams.

 

Releasing time delay exposure the weight became steady after three seconds.

 

At the time of the shutter release the weight went down one gram. Consistently. For over a dozen shots.

 

With the lens pointing down there was no change in weight.

 

What does this prove? Not much. But there is a measurable kick. Is it the exposure or the rewind? That is still a question.

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George, have you tried repeating the experiment but with a cable release and the shutter on 'B'? Obviously that will only test the first curtain, but it would give an indication if it's the re-cocking of the shutter or not that's causing the change? Obviously the recocking has no effect on the image being taken.

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Steve, I am able to handhold the M8 at speeds slower than either an M4/M6 or the D2.

 

Not that I'd depend on this if the shot were important, but there are also other postings of pretty slow speeds like 1/6 to 1/10 sec.

 

This would be pretty hard to pull off in a hurry, tho. Deduct points for not finding the wall to lean against and the stopping of the breathing.... :)

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I just repeated the test on the electronic scale with both of my M8s and there was no recorded change in weight. The exposure was about 5 secs, no weight change on shutter opening or closing.

 

1 g is small by the way compared to about 850g for the camera plus medium size lens.

 

Surely it is the change in resistance of the shutter button as it is pressed which causes a greater hand movement.

 

Jeff

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Guest noah_addis

It's hard to compare results from M8 and a film M camera, but if you do make comparisons it should be from identical size prints. If you blow up your M8 file to the pixel level on screen, that's a tougher test than looking at a neg or chrome with a 6x loupe.

 

Also, if you're comparing images with the same lens, don't forget the effective focal length is longer on the M8.

 

I've found the kick to be negligable in use. I can get sharp results at 1/4 second sometimes with, say, my 24mm. Other times I can't. But clearly since I can do it if I'm careful and steady, it's my fault when I get blur.

 

After trying out an M8.2, the new shutter does seem a bit smoother (and quieter, which might make one think it is smoother than it is), but it doesn't seem like enough of a difference to worry about it.

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I just repeated the test on the electronic scale with both of my M8s and there was no recorded change in weight. The exposure was about 5 secs, no weight change on shutter opening or closing.

 

Why would you think that there might be a change in weight due to the operation of the shutter?

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We might also determine the kick by suspending the camera from a string (carefully secured, of course) and seeing how it moves when a delayed shutter is activated.

 

When concentrating and holding the camera, I can feel a small kick. Go ahead, call me a damper on the image. :)

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George, have you tried repeating the experiment but with a cable release and the shutter on 'B'? .

 

I tried something like you suggest Steve. Delayed release of a 4 second exposure. This showed no change in weight. Neither at the exposure, nor at the closing of the second curtain and the rewind of the shutter.

 

It is of course not a terribly exact measurement. The scale shows grams but nothing less and a bit depends on how much of the strap is on the scale. I mean, are we at the upper or lower range of the gram in the steady state measurement. A more precise scale may help.

 

For all I know, my old hands shake a lot, and I mean a lot, more.

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Fiction... for the kinds of assignments I shoot, I'm routinely shooting at 1/60 and 1/30 with no problems ... and can get very consistent results holding a 21mm down to 1/15 and even 1/8. I don't view the shutter movement or "kick" (if that's what you want to call it) on the M8 as a problem at all.

 

brad

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A change of mass of the camera is via Einstein relativity theory (stored energy in spring = mass) and is negligable (10E-14 g or so). Your scales will not measure that I'm afraid - 1 gram is slightly of the mark. Maybe this is due to hysteresis of the scales' sensor.

 

The acceleration and decelleration of the shutter I expect is giving momentum transfer in the vertical direction, so 'shutter kick' induced blur should be vertical. Is there any evidence for that??

 

Take a picture of a star....... :)

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I just did some tests, no scale just holding my chrome M8 M4-2

With the M8 set to 1/2 second I can feel the shutter open, movement, and when the shutter closes. Two slight jars. Less then what I feel when it is set to 1/125-1/8000 but at those other speeds the 2 slight jars I feel at 1/2s are now one.

 

With the M4-2 I get the same result although they do feel less harsh and as I stated in a earlier post the M8 movement is Up/Down and the M4-2 side to side.

Ive got film in my M2 and CL so I'm not going to waist it doing these tests.

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I feel a kick, both on the old, and to a much smaller extent on the new one. But I feel it from the shutter closing, so it cannot impact the shooting. When I shoot at very low speeds, say 1/8 or 1/4th or even slower (with the 35), I put the shutter to continuous and shoot two or three frames. Usually the second shot is fine. This proves to me that the jerk of the finger releasing the shutter is of far more impact than the shutter itself. To minimize finger impact, *don't* jab the shutter release. The finger rests on the edge of the collar and the button and the slightest muscle twitch, a kind of rolling movement, releases the shutter.

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