Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
marknorton

Hot Air and Broken Promises

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Oh my gosh...."nikanopus" returns to the lexicon ...

I tried with Sony as welll (canikoso, casonikon) but nikanopus sounds better i feel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I tried with Sony as welll (canikoso, casonikon) but nikanopus sounds better i feel.

 

You've also left Pentax out in the cold and should expect to hear from them. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I packed up my d700 and lenses , my M8 and sent it all to Camera West for trade for a M8.2. the cash remaining will stay on store credit until the 21 1.4 comes out.

 

I did this because...

 

1.The Nikon stuff was to big for what I was using it for and..

2. I could never get the files to be "Leica Like" in post...and

3. I wanted too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think this is probably a huge problem for Leica right now.

 

They're undoubtedly in serious damage-control mode, and it's going to take a while to straighten things out.

 

I bet they don't even care. At the slightest.

And they have made so many products: A totally new camera system (S2), lenses, compacts, and they have solidified the M8 as an a-la-carte camera with valuable upgrades. Can you take a 5D and turn it into a 5D.2 ? No.

So why are we crying for a black badge, a soft EV and a release the button to recock camera?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DuquesneG
Can you take a 5D and turn it into a 5D.2 ? No.

So why are we crying for a black badge, a soft EV and a release the button to recock camera?

 

Well, uh, could it be because Leica does have an upgrade program, and they will accept $1500 to install the M8.2 shutter because it's quieter but refuse to include the simple but extremely effective (in terms of attaining maximum stealth) delay? Oh, and nice try lumping the black badge in there with real photographic improvements as if the people who want the latter two are the same dilettantes who care about the badge color. Which badge BTW can be purchased, or easily paint the red one black.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bet they don't even care. At the slightest.

And they have made so many products: A totally new camera system (S2), lenses, compacts, and they have solidified the M8 as an a-la-carte camera with valuable upgrades. Can you take a 5D and turn it into a 5D.2 ? No.

So why are we crying for a black badge, a soft EV and a release the button to recock camera?

 

I don't see how they could possibly not care. Their livelihood is at stake.

 

A number of announcements made on the authority of a certain former executive don't quite jibe with reality. The announcements were made, perhaps against the best interests of the company, and the current leadership is trying to steer the company in a new, more realistic, direction. Somehow they have to do that without blatantly reneging on the promises that were made.

 

My guess is that they're still walking a rather treacherous public relations tightrope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest stnami

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Leica probably don't want to lose face but cannot see it from another perspective thus the continuous white lies. A matter of we know that you know but we don't want to know

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leica is not in stake because they dont want to include a delayed shutter. Besides they have showed great things in this photokina, and this shows an almost about to launch company, with great future.

Almost, because we are now only starting to feel the tsunamis of the economic crisis that is about to knock on Europe's door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hilarious that so many folks lump the upgrade concept with Lee and it was all his bad/good/mediocre idea - and some of the assumptions made about how Leica should/is handling the policy since Lee's departure and how with Kaufmann in charge its a 'new direction' or 'new company', etc, etc.

 

Bear in mind folks, Lee was CEO - and hand picked by Kaufmann to be so. Any strategies he wanted to implement of such magnitude would of had to have been approved by the Board of (Managing) Directors - once of which (the only one who matters), Kaufmann, owns ~96.5% (source: LFI) of the stock. NOTHING of such magnitude would have been implemented w/o his (K's) approval.

 

In one of the recent LFI issues Kaufmann talks about how some of the US management style that Lee brought to the firm was good. Apparently that included the use of revisionist history: the policy of allowing the responsibility for any unpopular decisions made during a CEO's tenure riding out the front door with him on his (or her) departure...

 

As an aside, as an analyst I always found it hilarious when the people in place to (in theory) protect shareholders and oversee the CEO's administration (a.k.a The Board) finger-point at the departing CEO, because it implies hat either:

 

a) The Board were idiots who approved (a) stupid/dangerous/self-serving decisions .... and thus should be fired

The Board were asleep at the wheel ... and thus should be fired

c) The Board members consider their job to be that of simply keeping a chair warm and collecting Directors fees .... and thus should be fired.

c) The whole lot are lying through their teeth trying to hide the fact it was A, B or C.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

interesting comments, Robmac

 

I sometimes believe that it would be MUCH less complaints if Leica released M8.2 and NO upgrades for m8.0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DuquesneG

 

I sometimes believe that it would be MUCH less complaints if Leica released M8.2 and NO upgrades for m8.0.

 

Perhaps, after all that's consistent with the paradigm across the gamut of camera manufacturers. Certainly Leica had a perfect opportunity following the sacking of Lee to cancel the upgrade program and spin it that it was just something Lee blurted to the press but had never been approved by the board of directors. But they didn't do that. And the issue here is not whether it is fair that the M8.2 have some features that aren't upgradable on an M8. The issue is whether it is fair to charge $1500 for what is deemed a shutter upgrade designed to make the M8 comparable to a film M in usefulness in noise-sensitive situations, and then hold back a feature that is intimately-related to that upgrade. Many believe it is the wrong feature to use to differentiate the two camera models.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leitz at the time of the screw mount had a tradition of upgrade from model I to II and to III.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leitz at the time of the screw mount had a tradition of upgrade from model I to II and to III.

 

Indeed. I have a 1930 Model I factory converted in 1934 to a II. Some people here have short memories.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I find it hilarious that so many folks lump the upgrade concept with Lee and it was all his bad/good/mediocre idea - and some of the assumptions made about how Leica should/is handling the policy since Lee's departure and how with Kaufmann in charge its a 'new direction' or 'new company', etc, etc.

 

Bear in mind folks, Lee was CEO - and hand picked by Kaufmann to be so. Any strategies he wanted to implement of such magnitude would of had to have been approved by the Board of (Managing) Directors - once of which (the only one who matters), Kaufmann, owns ~96.5% (source: LFI) of the stock. NOTHING of such magnitude would have been implemented w/o his (K's) approval.

 

In one of the recent LFI issues Kaufmann talks about how some of the US management style that Lee brought to the firm was good. Apparently that included the use of revisionist history: the policy of allowing the responsibility for any unpopular decisions made during a CEO's tenure riding out the front door with him on his (or her) departure...

 

As an aside, as an analyst I always found it hilarious when the people in place to (in theory) protect shareholders and oversee the CEO's administration (a.k.a The Board) finger-point at the departing CEO, because it implies hat either:

 

a) The Board were idiots who approved (a) stupid/dangerous/self-serving decisions .... and thus should be fired

The Board were asleep at the wheel ... and thus should be fired

c) The Board members consider their job to be that of simply keeping a chair warm and collecting Directors fees .... and thus should be fired.

c) The whole lot are lying through their teeth trying to hide the fact it was A, B or C.

 

 

I'm glad that you find so many things hilarious. It's always a pleasure to be able to bring a little joy into someone's day.

 

But I'm afraid that "as an analyst" your hilarity seems to have loosened your grip on the reality of corporate politics. Where people are involved things rarely run according to the book. Additionally, the "rules" in the US are quite different from those in Europe or Asia.

 

It just isn't that simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kent10D - And a polite hello to you too.

 

Thanks for the street-side psychological analysis, but after so my years working IN major corporations on M&A deals in the US, Canada, the UK AND Germany and my years OUTSIDE corporations as an investment banking/stock analyst and consultant, I'm afraid if anything, I've got TOO GOOD a grasp on the 'realities' of corporate politics, structure and the (in)ability of CEOs to go 'wild west'.. In short, I think I'm covered in that regard. After stuffing too many corporate skeletons into closets I've come to the conclusion that sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss.

 

Carry on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps, after all that's consistent with the paradigm across the gamut of camera manufacturers. Certainly Leica had a perfect opportunity following the sacking of Lee to cancel the upgrade program and spin it that it was just something Lee blurted to the press but had never been approved by the board of directors. But they didn't do that. And the issue here is not whether it is fair that the M8.2 have some features that aren't upgradable on an M8. The issue is whether it is fair to charge $1500 for what is deemed a shutter upgrade designed to make the M8 comparable to a film M in usefulness in noise-sensitive situations, and then hold back a feature that is intimately-related to that upgrade. Many believe it is the wrong feature to use to differentiate the two camera models.

 

yeah thats why I said. When people want more, one small thing appears to be lacking and we have a BIG scandal here

 

Honestly speaking, such move is maybe necessary since I find that people prefer some things to other things in other body (1/8000, different framelines etc.) So in that way m8 program works more like a la carte but at much more cumbersome way, I think. Just look at M7 and MP and it is easier to sell such "different" cameras to broader group of buyers customers when they have different preferences.

 

If the shutter upgrade was available as same of M8.2, I would buy used M8 and upgraded to full M8.2 shutter. So price values of used M8 could retain as stable and Leica might not sold so many m8.2 after all. Even if Leica cannot sell much for $5000, I think it is important to have lower price of used M8 under $3000 to create bigger market for amateurs. It can be good campaign for them who never experienced RF and are tired of such bulk and weight of DSLR. That may generate some sale of new lenses for Leica later. Many people here would agree that it is such big price gap between Dlux4 and M (between $1000 and $5000)

 

Would it be less scandal if none M8.2 was released?

We should think instead that Leica should fall soon, she is slow as a turtle etc.

 

What other said so many times, those upgrades are something better than nothing even those are not perfect. If price is too high, leave it and let Leica see that in their revenue papper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
................................ After stuffing too many corporate skeletons into closets I've come to the conclusion that sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss.

 

Carry on

 

Trouble with that is they tend to fall out when someone opens the door

.

 

 

Bob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, gotta make sure those closet doors are well secured - or least well enough so that they don't pop open when you're anywhere in the vicinity.

 

The M8 upgrade strategy is an interesting idea, but I think the execution (what you can /can't get and for how much) is a head-scratcher with the M8.2 in the fray.

 

As a non-modular camera, there is only so much they could upgrade without having to gut the thing - and incur costs that would go thru the roof on a per camera basis. Looks more and more like an idea that looked good on the PowerPoint slides, but was put in place without enough fwd thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest DuquesneG

Again, it's the intimate relationship between the shutter replacement and the delayed recock (both designed to quiet down the camera) that makes it a poor marketing decision not to include the latter with the former. I totally get it that they have a need for the M8.2 to have some features not obtainable via an M8 upgrade. If Leica won't sell the black-paint top plate and gray hot shoe as upgrades, that's fine and dandy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Again, it's the intimate relationship between the shutter replacement and the delayed recock (both designed to quiet down the camera) that makes it a poor marketing decision not to include the latter with the former.

 

Bad or not, they have succeed at least for one person like me. That small feature (delayed recock) locked me with M8.2 so no M8.0 for me

 

Consider me lucky when I didnt bought a M8 yet so I see Leica marketing as successful

even if it is not friendly against my wallet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue., Read more about our Privacy Policy