EVF M rumoured

[jrichie]

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1 hour ago, Smogg said:

The problem is that there are many good cameras with EVF on the market. The rangefinder offers a real live view and a unique experience of using the space outside the frame, which is so interesting that I am ready to close my eyes to some shortcomings, such as parallax and the lack of autofocus. As for what the new camera will offer and why I should buy it - I do not yet understand. But I hope that the situation will become clearer.

I am hopeful it will be more like the SL3 in terms of EVF quality and screen to the rear with controls to the right.  I will be surprised if it isn't a very modern M, to announce this additional direction, anniversary and bringing it into the 21st century.  I wont consider it if it isn't a bold solution - whats the point.

[SrMi]

7 hours ago, Lee S said:

If the depth of field is way too large then surely no need to focus precisely? 

The DOF depends on the resolution. What is marked as sharp in the EVF/LCD may not be sharp in print or on screen, though the criteria for what is considered sharp enough can differ.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, Stevejack said:

I'm not liking the rumours so far.. namely that the EVF will simply be the existing visoflex quality but integrated into the camera, and a missing ISO dial. There's no benefit to then losing the rangefinder AND the vertical swivel of the existing visoflex, and having to rely on the thumbwheel to change ISO. It's essentially a backwards step from what I have now with the M11 + Visoflex. 

If they come up with a novel way to confirm focus via the EVF with M lenses without relying on magnifying or focus peaking that would be awesome, but probably not enough to make me a convert.

Covert, certainly not. Complement, yes.

[Smogg]

5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

The DOF depends on the resolution. What is marked as sharp in the EVF/LCD may not be sharp in print or on screen, though the criteria for what is considered sharp enough can differ.

The important point is the focusing speed. It is impossible to know the optimum point without getting information about the neighboring points. And this implies an inevitable back-and-forth focus slewing, which takes time compared to a rangefinder.

[T25UFO]

9 hours ago, algrove said:

If I recall correctly 3 May was when the fist M something was introduced many years ago.

Yes, Leica has a thing about dates . . . 9th September 2009 for the M9.

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, Stevejack said:

No but I don't think it matters. If you're choosing between this shot, and another in-focus shot which doesn't contain a similar gesture and expression it would be this one every time right? There's enough information there to make the photograph successful. 

And there's nothing in the fuzzy image that couldn't be corrected with Topaz Photo AI. I often take shots of similar subjects which are for a purpose: not as a perfectionist's art form, but for publicity for an event, or as a record of performance for the performers. If, through my own mistakes, the imperfections of the camera or just the accidents of the moment, I found myself with a slightly fuzzy image taken at the right instant and a sharp image that just misses it (perhaps I spent too long focusing a manual lens😉), then I would have no qualms about reaching for Topaz Photo AI and its Sharpen or Face Recovery modules (other software is available....).

[jaapv]

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

The DOF depends on the resolution. What is marked as sharp in the EVF/LCD may not be sharp in print or on screen, though the criteria for what is considered sharp enough can differ.

A good reason to keep the hypothetical camera in Leica’s 24 MP line. The EVF in the SL2S and SL3 S draw better reviews than the donor cameras. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

And there's nothing in the fuzzy image that couldn't be corrected with Topaz Photo AI. I often take shots of similar subjects which are for a purpose: not as a perfectionist's art form, but for publicity for an event, or as a record of performance for the performers. If, through my own mistakes, the imperfections of the camera or just the accidents of the moment, I found myself with a slightly fuzzy image taken at the right instant and a sharp image that just misses it (perhaps I spent too long focusing a manual lens😉), then I would have no qualms about reaching for Topaz Photo AI and its Sharpen or Face Recovery modules (other software is available....).

I regularly use various AI tools to fix images when necessary. However, those tools are never a replacement for skills or a well executed image that does not need those tools.

Especially Topaz tools seem to occasionally replace a face or hand with a different noise-free and sharp hand and face. I do not like that.

Edited March 26 by SrMi

[jaapv]

Nor I but I am happy with Photo AI. I use it at the beginning of my workflow in Photoshop, mainly noise reduction dialed down as a mild pre-sharpening but other parts as well if I have screwed up.  For instance subject sharpening when I missed critical focus or correcting colour balance. Face enhancing does not really appeal to me as the result can be unnatural but it is useful to balance the rendering of faces in a group. The sliders to tone it down get used quite a lot. 

[luigi bertolotti]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

A good reason to keep the hypothetical camera in Leica’s 24 MP line. The EVF in the SL2S and SL3 S draw better reviews than the donor cameras. 

Technically , it has sense... but what about the appeal of a 24 MP camera within a 60 MP product line ?  (expecially if they find the way to have IBIS)

[algrove]

3 May 2025 is exactly the 100th anniversary of Leica.

[pgk]

Depth of Field is an often poorly understood concept. Apparently so is focus🤔.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Technically , it has sense... but what about the appeal of a 24 MP camera within a 60 MP product line ?  (expecially if they find the way to have IBIS)

I see plenty of interest in the SL2S and SL3S here… 

[lct]

1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Technically , it has sense... but what about the appeal of a 24 MP camera within a 60 MP product line ?  (expecially if they find the way to have IBIS)

IBIS is not necessary on low res cameras, but a 24MP camera without IBIS would only make sense if it were sold at a lower price than the M11. The sans-RF EVF-M would then be a low-cost M11 sort of, the same way as the sans-RF M1 was a low-cost M2 in the sixties. Hard to believe, almost as hard as a 60MP EVF-M without IBIS when the 100MP X2D with IBIS sells for 'only' $8k.

[la1402]

If they call it M11-V, I would bet it shares a lot of specifications with M11, especially the sensor.

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, lct said:

IBIS is not necessary on low res cameras, but a 24MP camera without IBIS would only make sense if it were sold at a lower price than the M11. The sans-RF EVF-M would then be a low-cost M11 sort of, the same way as the sans-RF M1 was a low-cost M2 in the sixties. Hard to believe, almost as hard as a 60MP EVF-M without IBIS when the 100MP X2D with IBIS sells for 'only' $8k.

IBIS is also necessary for low-resolution cameras. If you pixel-peep, you may be able to handhold a lower-resolution sensor one stop slower. There is no difference in the same output size (print, online sharing). Of course, you can generate 18MP raws with M11, which allows handholding at 100% view even slower.

[jaapv]

Of course,  due to the lower magnification at 100% of lower resolution cameras. To judge properly one must view and print the files at identical resolution. The main thing is still expertise at handholding technique. Personally I find OIS on long lenses far more useful than IBIS on short ones. 

[Lee S]

21 hours ago, adan said:

Nope.  DoF - as people perceive it - is heavily dependent on the final image size, and how closely people will view it.

Most EVFs will be like looking at a 2" x 3" (5cm x 7.5cm) print. From 3-4"/7.5-10 cms away.

 

Does this look focused?

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Is it really focused? Is it really, really focused?

Yes I’m aware of that. There is only one true point of focus, everything else beyond or in front of that point is just an acceptable level of blur we define as ‘depth of field’. As you said, depends on the viewing distance of the final image, your eyesight and what you define as acceptable. 
 

If my memory serves me correctly DoF scales are typically based on a circle of confusion 1500 times less than the diagonal of 9x6 that people with reasonable vision would accept as sharp. 

Edited March 26 by Lee S

[jrichie]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

I see plenty of interest in the SL2S and SL3S here… 

I would be more than happy with a 24MP M EVF camera - in fact it is perfect.

I would be amazed if they did this though, however it sort of makes some sense, and provides a more entry level into the M world than the current pricing allows.

M-V entry [EVF 24MP]

M - flagship [OVF 60MP]

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[Tobers]

I wonder how they will implement focus confirmation. There’s some real opportunity for innovation.

For example, they could just have a graphic indicator to tell you how close you are to having focus on the thing inside the rangefinder patch. For example, a representation of where the lens focus tab (if there is one) is versus where it should be.

They could keep things really simple and interesting.

I got rid of my M10 because I found it too difficult to focus accurately with my Summilux lenses. The Summilux lenses were a main draw for the M system for me but there’s no point having f/1.4 if you cant focus it reliably. A cool implementation in the M11V might draw me back again.