APO SL rumours?

[Simone_DF]

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22 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

Due to COVID the roadmap was delayed but mainly complèted with high value APO and VARIO lenses.  

4 years of delay because of Covid? Sounds like a stretch. Look at how many lenses Sigma has released during the same time span. They were also affected by Covid, like everyone else in the industry. 

24 minutes ago, SiggiGun said:

This is the interest of the L Mount initiative with co designed products. 

I personally would never buy a rebadge, and would like to have an in-house, non APO Leica designed lens. 

[Simone_DF]

12 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

We have the most excellent native SL lenses, minus 1 lens...Apo 24

Yes, at 720g each. Carry 3 of them, say 28, 50 and 90 and you are in weight lifting territory. Can’t we have nice, small and lightweight Leica lenses like pretty much everyone else? Not everyone needs APO level resolving power. 

 

16 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

(And...so what if doesn't, just zoom with your feet or buy a SL zoom, or a used 24 Elmar) 

Luckily we have the Sigma primes, a much better solution 😉

 

17 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Then we have the all the M lenses that work superbly on all SL cameras and least we forget the great R lenses too.  

Not really. Many wides do not perform well on the SL. They are also not weather sealed and they lack AF. 

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[Olaf_ZG]

At current, I only own the 24-90 from Leica, had the 35apo, but sold it, as I prefer tighter. For the ranges I use less, I have the panasonics: 16-35 and 70-200, light and cheap in comparison with the Leica. As I have a weakness for Zeiss i bought several ef-lenses together with some t/s lenses. The L-mount makes it all possible.

 I might add a lens for portraits, it will be a leica one most probably. So, I don’t need more.

But I do understand that others want more. In comparison with the m-mount, leica choice on the SL is small.

[JohnathanLovm]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

So we reached a point where in L mount future Leica lenses are only rebadges?

Based on recent release from both Sigma and Lumix S lenses I say I’m quite confident about SL’s lifespan. 

[JohnathanLovm]

10 hours ago, tom0511 said:

good question from OP in my opinion. Would be nice to get a little more (or at least a little) communication from Leica about the future of the SL system.

We know what happened to R, CL, and mirror reflex S, ...a roadmap of Leica plans for the SL would help me to decide if I might upgrade to the SL3 or not.

Ever wonder why only M and SL survived? Third party lenses support played an important role on this one. Leica historically always willing to work with others to ensure their system longevity. 

[MediaFotografie]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Simone_DF:

So we reached a point where in L mount future Leica lenses are only rebadges?

if the rumors are right there will be a new mirrorless S system in the near future, what means a complete new set of S lenses; so I think we have to live with rebadged SL lenses the next time, not so happy about this

[LocalHero1953]

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For my needs, the choice of SL lenses is enough (well, I might look at a Summilux 75…..). Though I can understand others wanting more, I suspect Leica has covered the most popular options. Anything else (T/S, long& fast, ultra wide) is likely to sell in fewer numbers and so at higher cost. Leica would have to be sure of its market. Perhaps they should launch a subscription model? Kickstarter?

[Simone_DF]

1 hour ago, JohnathanLovm said:

Based on recent release from both Sigma and Lumix S lenses I say I’m quite confident about SL’s lifespan. 

Yes, sure, but what about Leica lenses? Is it the end of the road for Leica SL lenses non-rebadged?

[davidmknoble]

Leica makes an increasingly large inventory of systems.  They have created every lens on their roadmap except the APO 24 summicron.  Also, while the lens computations may be effectively the same on the ‘rebranding’ lenses - they still have Leica coatings on the glass and sealed lens bodies so I don’t mind them if it gets more lenses out. The 100-400 is pretty good and is the longest weather sealed SL lens (especially with the extender).

However, they have also committed to developing and S4 medium format that we expect to be mirrorless which involves designing new lenses.  My guess (and only a guess) is that they are shifting at the moment and will likely take the APO Summicron for the SL system and transfer them towards a larger format sensor.  It would make sense since these primes have so much more to give.  It would also slow down lens design.

The APO primes are also very small since they are f/2.  I had the 50 1.4 for a period and it is a huge heavy lens.  I’m sure they could redesign it with a faster motor, but I like the compactness of the primes.  

I think it is here to stay for awhile longer.

[davidmknoble]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Not really. Many wides do not perform well on the SL. They are also not weather sealed and they lack AF

The 16-35 and the wide APOs perform very well on the SL and are weather sealed.  The SL system has not released distortion and light falloff graphs with their lenses because they are corrected in camera - much like competition.

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes, sure, but what about Leica lenses? Is it the end of the road for Leica SL lenses non-rebadged?

Quite possibly, until there is demand for one that Leica could make money from.
Would that actually be a problem? I mean for Leica in its market. It is obviously a problem for those who want different lenses.

Edited February 25 by LocalHero1953

[davidmknoble]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes, at 720g each. Carry 3 of them, say 28, 50 and 90 and you are in weight lifting territory. Can’t we have nice, small and lightweight Leica lenses like pretty much everyone else? Not everyone needs APO level resolving power. 

720g is light for metal lenses (not plastic), weather sealed and lots of glass.  The Leica M APO 90 Summicron is 500 grams - no weather sealing and no autofocus motor.

Leica also responded with a 35mm and 50mm summicron that was non APO and lighter. If you don’t want to carry the weight, you can try those. 

Also note the SL2 body weighs about 835g (without battery) versus an M10 Monochrom which weighs 660g (with battery).  If you want a lighter system, go with the M and lose the weather sealing and autofocus.

[JohnathanLovm]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yes, sure, but what about Leica lenses? Is it the end of the road for Leica SL lenses non-rebadged?

Maybe. But I won’t to obsess with non-rebadged lenses. 

[BernardC]

You can always contact Leica if there's a specific lens that you feel is missing from the system. They do listen to customers when planning new products.

One thing about the SL system is that they aren't trying to fill-out the brochure, like they did with the R system. That strategy led to financial disaster. Sigma and Panasonic have done a stellar job providing additional lenses.

My intuition is that the 24 will be a joint design with the new S4 system. That's a key focal length for medium format.

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

and sealed lens bodies

???

Can you point out which one of the rebadges has additional Leica weather sealing?

Edited February 25 by Simone_DF

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

The 16-35 and the wide APOs perform very well on the SL and are weather sealed.  The SL system has not released distortion and light falloff graphs with their lenses because they are corrected in camera - much like competition.

I was talking about M and R lenses 😅

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Quite possibly, until there is demand for one that Leica could make money from.
Would that actually be a problem? I mean for Leica in its market. It is obviously a problem for those who want different lenses.

Perhaps. How do you generate market interest in your camera if no lens is developed for the system? From an external point of view it looks like a dead end, like the CL and the R 

[LBJ2]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

You can always contact Leica if there's a specific lens that you feel is missing from the system. They do listen to customers when planning new products.

One thing about the SL system is that they aren't trying to fill-out the brochure, like they did with the R system. That strategy led to financial disaster. Sigma and Panasonic have done a stellar job providing additional lenses.

My intuition is that the 24 will be a joint design with the new S4 system. That's a key focal length for medium format.

I'm afraid the Leica Super-Vario-Elmarit-SL 14-24mm f/2.8 ASPH Lens is the SL 24 offering. ☹️ Not that the 14-24 is in any way a bad lens, but it's not an SL 24 APO And yes I've had the opportunity to communicate my desire for the SL 24 APO a few times. Seems Leica is as allergic to 24mm primes as other systems are allergic to 28mm primes. 

"24 being a joint design with the new S4 system" is an interesting thought. But do you really think Leica is capable of rolling out an entire new system of S4 lenses any time soon, even more than a few? ...based upon how long it takes to get just one new lens out of Leica, I do have doubts. 

Edited February 25 by LBJ2

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

Leica also responded with a 35mm and 50mm summicron that was non APO and lighter. If you don’t want to carry the weight, you can try those. 

Also note the SL2 body weighs about 835g (without battery) versus an M10 Monochrom which weighs 660g (with battery).  If you want a lighter system, go with the M and lose the weather sealing and autofocus.

I prefer originals to copies at 4x the price. 
The M is not a replacement, it’s a totally different machine. I’m leaning more toward the S5II these days. I’m just waiting for the right offer. 
 

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[Stuart Richardson]

18 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I prefer originals to copies at 4x the price. 
The M is not a replacement, it’s a totally different machine. I’m leaning more toward the S5II these days. I’m just waiting for the right offer. 
 

So buy the Sigma version then? What lenses are you particularly missing? Because it seems more like the system is not what is right for you, not the lens selection...

Leica already has made as many in-house SL lenses as they did for the entire lifetime of the S system (which I think as 9 lenses plus one from Schneider), but also they have provided the rebadges to address areas where they did not have their own offering. If they don't sit well with you, that is fine, but something is better than nothing...

There are certainly a few gaps that it might be nice for Leica to fill: a 35mm and 75/80mm summilux, a macro, a tilt/shift, but the advantage as compared to the R system or S system is that you CAN buy equivalent lenses and use them natively on the camera. Leica has to think strategically about where to spend its resources. The 105mm Sigma APO Macro is a good example. I have the S 120mm macro as well as the Sigma version and there is really very little between them in quality. They are both functionally "perfect" optically. How many buyers will Leica find for a Leica designed and made macro at what will likely be 6000-8000 dollars when there is already a native macro lens that maxes out 187mp at optimal aperture that is available for 800 dollars? I mean, I get wanting the Leica version. I also have two APO Summicrons and they are stellar, but I agree with Bernard about the days of the R system and having every single lens possible to make...not happening in this market. And a number of those R lenses were made by Sigma, Minolta and Schneider! It just was not as well known as it is today with the internet.

Edited February 25 by Stuart Richardson