Choosing new film M

[Big John]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Shot film in the 80s and 90s (Olympus and Nikon) then digital only for past 20 years (including SL 601 since it came out)  Loaded my Nikon F5 last year and loved shooting film again.  Now considering an M.

Have read and watched all I can, so understand the differences between the 3 currently available film M cameras but still undecided. Don’t mind black or chrome (and not chasing a BP finish).  Have always had a light meter in my camera (apart from shooting my Dad’s old Ilford as a kid) but am attracted to the simplicity of the M-A. Areas I could use advice on include the following please:

- quality control issues, not sure if M6 scratching film issue has gone away.

- viewfinder, which is best?  (My eyesight is ok but am in mid 50s). 

- reliability over the long term.

Anyone else been in my situation?  How did you choose?

Thanks for your help everyone. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ianman]

12 minutes ago, Big John said:

How did you choose?

For me it was very simple. I wanted an M film camera with a light meter and I have a preference for black. The was no M6 at the time and I was not interested in the features of the M7. So a black MP is what I got. Happily it was in stock too… those were the days 🙂

[Fotoklaus]

Thea are all 3 basically an MP, so it is just a matter of taste. I would not choose an M-A. The lightmeter is useful and also very basic, it does not disturb anything. 

And the fact that they close The MP's battery compartment with a piece of tinplate to "create" the M-A is a bit too fancy for me...

Edited January 10, 2024 by Fotoklaus

[Pelu2010]

I use the lightmeter of the iPhone or I use the lightmeter of any digital camera I carry on top of the Leica M3. 
Once I got the overall exposure of the scene I am in, I don’t need the lightmeter anymore. And then I just enjoy the sound of the M3. 
cheers 

[dpitt]

For practical use, I like the M6 style of rewind button best. Certainly if you need to change film in cold weather, your thumbs will thank you.

I must admit that the MP classic button looks cool, and everything looks the same for me.

My preferred M is still the M2. No light meter, but it is the only M with single frames for all supported FL (35/50/90). For 28 and wider, I prefer the external OVF anyway, or the EVF on digital models with LV. My iphone works fine as a light meter. And I just shoot a snap with the iPhone of my subject, so that it shows where all the shots were taken.

[williamj]

If I may be so bold as to say, you don't expect any difference between the three new Leica M in the areas you want advice. The cameras are made by the same individuals, they are all Leica MP with slight variations and only you can say which variation you are most drawn to, and you do not expect any difference in reliability over the long term, except for 1 issue. There is a small chance that the light meter might not be reparable in the very distant future, say in twenty years time. However, if you are going to choose a camera without a light meter then you can save a heap of money by going second hand.

[spydrxx]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I went with a M2 and am quite happy, having used a M4 for many years. No meter, but I have my Iphone and a Luna-Pro when and if I need one (I usually am a Sunny 16 person).

[Al Brown]

But why buy new????
Get a reliable used M with at least 14 days retour window.

[TomB_tx]

Quality control on all current models is the same, and there are no issues that would prevent me from buying any of them - except I don't need one. I still use the M6 I bought in 1985, with the viewfinder upgraded to cure the old flare-out issue and switch to the newer multi-coated windows. The VF/RF are exceptionally nice to use - as would any of the current models. I've used meterless cameras since the 1960s along with the various generations of metered models, and the M6-MP style (very little difference) is my favorite: fast and easy to set or to ignore, and fine in all normal lighting situations. I still use an M4 along with metered cameras, and find my visual estimated exposures are good most of the time. But the M6 meter is nice for difficult lighting.  I do like the M6 style wind and rewind better than the MA-MP style. (In fact, I put M6 style wind levers on my M2 & M3 cameras.)

I also use M9 & M10 for digital alongside the film Ms, and use them just like they were film. No other make lets you do that!

I wore glasses full time for 64 years, and even with slowly degrading vision never had a problem using the Leica RF. But cataract lens replacement eliminated my need for glasses, so now I can see the whole VF easier. My eyes are over 77 years old, but with new built-in lenses.

[Big John]

This is why I really like (and learn a lot from) this forum - lots of very helpful responses.  Thank you everyone.

[Martin B]

Best price/quality ratio with a used M film camera is currently in my opinion for two models only: the M5 and the M4-2. All the other used Leica M film cameras are overpriced on the market. I would only consider a new M-A or M-P if contemplating to already vest > $2.8K for a used classic Leica M6. Then you get fairly close to a used M-P or M-A in price with a bit of uptick. 

If $1.5K is the limit for a used M camera, both the M5 and the M4-2 are reasonable options. I own the M4-2, and other than not having an internal light meter, it is like my classic M6 (non TTL). The M5 still doesn't get much love from rangefinder users for various reasons, but it is not a bad one either. 

Edited January 10, 2024 by Martin B

[Anbaric]

4 hours ago, Big John said:

Shot film in the 80s and 90s (Olympus and Nikon) then digital only for past 20 years (including SL 601 since it came out)  Loaded my Nikon F5 last year and loved shooting film again.  Now considering an M.

If it were me and the choice was between the current cameras, I'd go for the M6 because I like the 'modern' wind/rewind and the meter. I do shoot some meterless cameras, but for that kind of money I'd much rather have the option of a meter than not. If I preferred the retro wind and rewind, I'd go for the MP. The M-A is the least attractive to me, because if I wanted a classic meterless M I'd rather buy one of the originals from Leica's golden era, probably an M2 or M4, and have it serviced. That would be substantially less expensive, and some would argue the quality would be even higher. The only significant disadvantages would a more limited selection of framelines from the cameras before the M4-P, and slower loading on the M2/3 (which can be fixed with a modern upgrade).

I don't think QC, viewfinders or longevity are likely to differ significantly between the current production cameras, except perhaps for the electronics in the metered cameras (which will still work perfectly well without meters, of course). However, if you still have Olympus or Nikon gear, you might consider other options. The OM-1 was pretty much designed as an SLR alternative to the Leica, and is in some respects closer in spirit to an M than Leica's own SLRs. The large and heavy F5 may be overkill for the kind of applications film is used for today (few people need or want to burn a £15 roll in under 5 seconds) but of course there are many smaller and lighter Nikons, including AF cameras like the F100 (good for action, as well as ageing eyes) or classic SLRs like the FM that do more or less what the M6 does for perhaps 5% of the price of a secondhand M6 Classic.

Edited January 10, 2024 by Anbaric

[johnwolf]

I used an M6 for years and now an M2. The meter was nice sometimes, but I now carry a little Sekonic 208 and prefer to meter without raising the camera to my eye. Especially for street photography. And, of course, an incident reading is usually more accurate. BTW, the M2’s frame lines are the cat’s meow. 

Whatever you choose I think you’ll adjust quickly and love it. So don’t fret too much over it.

John

 

Edited January 10, 2024 by johnwolf

[a.noctilux]

Hello,

@Big John

For your return to film, welcome to film and freedom of not relying on inboard meter.

For the M, in your place I'd take challenge not metered M, second hand and lenses of your dream, or new M-A.

Then learn the light here very easy route.

 

[Herr Barnack]

5 hours ago, Big John said:

- quality control issues, not sure if M6 scratching film issue has gone away

You have to wait for the M6-P to get that upgrade...

[Mr.Prime]

It sounds like you come from an SLR background. You probably know better than anyone which focal lengths you like to use the most. If you are a 50mm lens guy, the M3 is the pick, as it will give you the best viewfinder experience possible. If you are a 35mm lens guy, then I'd suggest the M4 (early models) which are essentially the M3 with a wider viewfinder. If you like long focal lengths, the M would not be a recommendation I'd make, stick with an SLR. 

 

Meter or no meter? You'll miss a meter badly at first after a lifetime of using one. That means you need an M5 or later. The new models are all pretty much the same MP or M6.

 

I came from the SLR world, then digital and back to film. I use an M3 and an M4 depending on whether I'm using a 50mm or 35mm lens.  I carry a small pocket lightmeter with incident metering capability and enjoy using it.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2024 by Mr.Prime

[IkarusJohn]

I went the M-A route for three reasons:

• no electronics to go wrong (my confidence in Leica’s electronics has been sorely dented)
• uncluttered viewfinder
• simplicity - no battery, and just composition, focus, aperture and shutter to think about

As for metering, this is obviously the determining factor.  When I learned photography, we had to assess the prevailing light conditions; then with built in meters, I had to learn what the camera was metering and adjust.  With an EVF, I preferred to assess exposure using exposure simulation through the viewfinder.  The M-A has taken me back to incident readings using a handheld meter, which appeals more.

The fact that the M-A is an MP body with the battery hole filled in doesn’t bother me - the black ostrich print leather covers it well; and I quite like the pop-up rewind knob on the M-A.

For some reason, I’ve never really warmed to the look of the M6 - it’s just pastiche as it seems to be the same camera as the MP, just with a retro body.  I don’t see the point, but then I wasn’t an M6 owner and I’d never really noticed them when they were current.

Good luck!  I’ve been using my M-A over the summer, and it really is liberating (except I now have a stack of films to develop).

[johnwolf]

1 hour ago, Mr.Prime said:

… If you are a 50mm lens guy, the M3 is the pick, as it will give you the best viewfinder experience possible….

Everyone says this but I don’t agree. Or at least I’ll say, compare and make your own mind. 

I went M shopping a couple months ago, planning to choose between an M2 and M3, specifically for use with a 50. Those thick, rounded M3 frame lines did not appeal at all. The view through the M2 wowed me. I could take in everything at once and also had a reasonable view outside the framelines. To each his or her own, of course, but I’m loving the 50 M2 view.

John

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[TomB_tx]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

For some reason, I’ve never really warmed to the look of the M6 - it’s just pastiche as it seems to be the same camera as the MP, just with a retro body.

Others describe the MP as being an updated M6, with retro wind and rewind levers... Functionally that seems to be the case.

[Big John]

Thanks everyone - really good food for thought.  A couple of comments back in response to some of the points made:

- 35mm is my favourite FL.

- I was leaning towards a smaller, lighter SLR (I only have my F5 and while it is a great camera, it is big and heavy).

- still not clear whether the new M6 has scratching issues?