M10 line of dead pixels in the cold weather

[jon595]

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I've had my used M10 for about 5 months now and it has been great.  No issues and I have taken over 1,000 shots with it.  While out walking my dog around town last night, I brought the M10 along to get some shots of the holiday decorations.  I was out for about 30 minutes total.  The last few frames I took, I noticed a line of black pixels going through the frame.  This was visible on the back LCD when reviewing images.  Once I got home, the computer verified that a single row of pixels were black.  I've read about this happening to Leica sensors and having to send it in for a re-map to remove it and a CLA.  The odd thing, is when I first got home and the camera was still cold, it produced the same black line, but after warming up for 20 minutes in my house, it was gone.  The temperature outside was right around freezing and no other digital camera I've had ever had sensor issues in these temps. The attached images show the black line of pixels near the middle height of the frame and most visible on the left hand side.

Has anyone else experienced this?  I'm hoping it was either a one off or just a cold weather thing as I'd like to not send back my M10 for re-map.  Thanks for any thoughts.

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[dugby]

The M10 datasheet https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-75209-Leica-M10_Technical-Data_en.pdf  does specify the operating temperature conditions of 0-40C

As you are close to the documented operating temperature conditions, one could suggest unexpected outcomes 'may' occur.

 

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[jon595]

7 minutes ago, dugby said:

The M10 datasheet https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-75209-Leica-M10_Technical-Data_en.pdf  does specify the operating temperature conditions of 0-40C

As you are close to the documented operating temperature conditions, one could suggest unexpected outcomes 'may' occur.

 

That's good to know, thanks.  I figured the mechanical linkages in the viewfinder would be the issue in cold weather and not the sensor/electronics themselves.  I guess the Nikon Zf will be my go to cold weather camera.  

I'm hoping it's just the cold that caused it.  I've tried recreating this line of pixels with the same lens, ISO, aperture, shutter speed and various light sources, but I cannot replicate it.  I'll just plan on keeping the camera above certain temps now.

[jaapv]

All cameras have a minimum operating temperature which you can find in the specification. Nikon as well as Leica. However I suggest that you send the file of the offending image to Leica for advice. It may be that the sensor needs to be remapped. 

[jon595]

1 minute ago, jaapv said:

All cameras have a minimum operating temperature which you can find in the specification. Nikon as well as Leica. However I suggest that you send the file of the offending image to Leica for advice. It may be that the sensor needs to be remapped. 

If the issue keeps happening in standard temperatures, I probably will.  As of now, I cannot replicate the issue so I'm going to hope if I keep the camera in the proper temperature range it will be ok.  Thanks for the advice.

[jaapv]

The Nikon has an operating temperature range of 0-40 degrees C. The Leica <drumroll> 0-40 degrees C….

[venom]

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23 hours ago, jon595 said:

I've had my used M10 for about 5 months now and it has been great.  No issues and I have taken over 1,000 shots with it.  While out walking my dog around town last night, I brought the M10 along to get some shots of the holiday decorations.  I was out for about 30 minutes total.  The last few frames I took, I noticed a line of black pixels going through the frame.  This was visible on the back LCD when reviewing images.  Once I got home, the computer verified that a single row of pixels were black.  I've read about this happening to Leica sensors and having to send it in for a re-map to remove it and a CLA.  The odd thing, is when I first got home and the camera was still cold, it produced the same black line, but after warming up for 20 minutes in my house, it was gone.  The temperature outside was right around freezing and no other digital camera I've had ever had sensor issues in these temps. The attached images show the black line of pixels near the middle height of the frame and most visible on the left hand side.

Has anyone else experienced this?  I'm hoping it was either a one off or just a cold weather thing as I'd like to not send back my M10 for re-map.  Thanks for any thoughts.

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I had a line exactly like that in a used M10P that I bought (my first Leica). According to the Leica repair who examined my file, they said it wasn’t a remapping issue and that it needed a new “sensor board”. 

I sold it and bought a new M10R. 

BTW, you don’t need to send the camera for remapping. They ask you to upload a file and then they send you a file to install (as if it’s a camera firmware update) and it’s done. 
 

Now here is the thing. It only happened to my camera at ISO100 and ISO200. So you need to test this with a blank frame like pointing it to the sky and then take a photo at every ISO setting from 100 to 6400. Just go through the dial. Then examine each file in photoshop carefully. 

if you see it then send Leica an email and they will tell you how to upload the file for them check it. 

as you can see this is not a rare event with the 24MP M10’s.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by venom

[jon595]

1 hour ago, venom said:

I had a line exactly like that in a used M10P that I bought (my first Leica). According to the Leica repair who examined my file, they said it wasn’t a remapping issue and that it needed a new “sensor board”. 

I sold it and bought a new M10R. 

BTW, you don’t need to send the camera for remapping. They ask you to upload a file and then they send you a file to install (as if it’s a camera firmware update) and it’s done. 
 

Now here is the thing. It only happened to my camera at ISO100 and ISO200. So you need to test this with a blank frame like pointing it to the sky and then take a photo at every ISO setting from 100 to 6400. Just go through the dial. Then examine each file in photoshop carefully. 

if you see it then send Leica an email and they will tell you how to upload the file for them check it. 

as you can see this is not a rare event with the 24MP M10’s.

 

Thanks for the information. I retested the camera at all the ISO's on the dial and cannot replicate it yet. I'll keep an eye out for it and pray it doesnt happen again. 

[venom]

2 hours ago, jon595 said:

Thanks for the information. I retested the camera at all the ISO's on the dial and cannot replicate it yet. I'll keep an eye out for it and pray it doesnt happen again. 

Ah perfect. So I’ll chuck it off to the temperatures then and a bad pixel. 

it does mean the camera has a faulty pixel which makes the whole line go out when it’s cold. So send the file to Leica and have it remapped. They’ll give you a link to upload the RAW file. That way you can use it in cold conditions. 

If the camera doesn’t have the latest firmware (3.22.23.38) for it then just run an update.

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/cameras/m/m10-black/downloads

I think Leica remaps everyone’s cameras when the camera updates. This is a 24MP M10 issue. I’ve never seen it in the 40MP or 60MP Leicas. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by venom

[jon595]

2 hours ago, venom said:

Ah perfect. So I’ll chuck it off to the temperatures then and a bad pixel. 

it does mean the camera has a faulty pixel which makes the whole line go out when it’s cold. So send the file to Leica and have it remapped. They’ll give you a link to upload the RAW file. That way you can use it in cold conditions. 

If the camera doesn’t have the latest firmware (3.22.23.38) for it then just run an update.

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/cameras/m/m10-black/downloads

I think Leica remaps everyone’s cameras when the camera updates. This is a 24MP M10 issue. I’ve never seen it in the 40MP or 60MP Leicas. 

The camera does have the latest firmware as that was the first thing I checked when I bought it in July.  I'll start the process of contacting Leica and see how to move forward. Thanks again for the help.

[TomB_tx]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:47 AM, dugby said:

The M10 datasheet https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-75209-Leica-M10_Technical-Data_en.pdf  does specify the operating temperature conditions of 0-40C

As you are close to the documented operating temperature conditions, one could suggest unexpected outcomes 'may' occur.

 

and the lowly Pentax K1000 was rated to operate from -20C to 50C...

[evikne]

You can also easily select the affected line with the Single Row Marquee Tool in Photoshop and use Content-Aware Fill. If you have multiple (uncropped) images, you can create a batch that does it automatically for you.

For your image here, I had to select some more lines though, because the jpeg compression made the line flow outwards a bit.

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[theseahawk]

When my M10-P was doing that earlier this year, the DC Leica store connected me with Leica service techs who examined a couple of sample files I provided that showed the pixel line. It was adding it in regular operating temperatures but low-light settings. A couple days later they emailed a firmware update specific to the camera and that eliminated the line. 
 

That said, another similar line showed up in some nighttime shots I took in October but so far only affecting very few files.  Again taken above 0 C. Not sure if I will request another firmware update or send the body in for that and a CLA + sensor cleaning, but it’s not urgent in my case. 

[jon595]

I emailed Leica repair and they are insisting to send the camera in and they don't do this without the camera being sent. So I'm holding off for now and will keep an eye on it. 

I don't use the Adobe suite, but darktable and gimp. I'm sure I can script up something to deal with this if I need too.