Occasional unreadable dng

[Crem]

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4 minutes ago, bilbrown said:

Brilliant. I hope this firm are is soon.

 

i too have had this issue with my M11-P. But usually with a write error or freeze. Even pulled the card and changed from Lexar (from my M10-R) to San Disk.  
 

There are other issues, like lens profiles switching around and other stuff I have maybe figured out.
 

Also the geotagging Fotos glitch where it had a spinning wheel and was looking for my iPhone with a Wi-Fi icon (I simply turned off Fotos if I am not using it, which if I remember correctly was the default for the M10 series). Also the lag when shooting fast even at S resolution is a pain, for this I will simply switch to my M10M or SL2-S for now… but it’s a pain as I could shoot much faster with a smaller buffer with the M10-R.

 

Man, I do not like paying to beta test this shit. The Akadamie folks beta test and others. Maybe it’s impossible, but the software engineers need to be more with it. 

Lexar UHS II cards should work fine. I use the v90 300mb/s with the x2000 label. I wish Leica would either sell their own cards or give us an exact list of what cards we should be using so we can remove that variable.

What lag are you talking about exactly? Writing to the card (buffer lag)?

The M11 firmware has had so many issues since the original version. Things have gotten a lot better, but overall I have never felt like I can trust this camera as much as the M10R. It really does feel like we are the beta testers.

[anbucco]

M11-P. About 1.200 photos taken. DNG internally and JPG on SD (SanDisk 128GB UHS-II V90). No issues or missed shots so far. 

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[Crem]

6 hours ago, anbucco said:

M11-P. About 1.200 photos taken. DNG internally and JPG on SD (SanDisk 128GB UHS-II V90). No issues or missed shots so far. 

What firmware version? 

[anbucco]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Crem:

What firmware version? 

2.0.1 came with 1.7.0 – manufactured 8/16/23 – connected to Fotos all the time w/o any hassles

Edited November 14, 2023 by anbucco
mentioned Fotos

[bilbrown]

10 hours ago, Crem said:

Lexar UHS II cards should work fine. I use the v90 300mb/s with the x2000 label. I wish Leica would either sell their own cards or give us an exact list of what cards we should be using so we can remove that variable.

What lag are you talking about exactly? Writing to the card (buffer lag)?

The M11 firmware has had so many issues since the original version. Things have gotten a lot better, but overall I have never felt like I can trust this camera as much as the M10R. It really does feel like we are the beta testers.

Ugh, so many to break down to the point where I have to think of what I was doing to make it happen.

Originally, I used a Lexar v60, not v90. Same one I used in my M10R or any of my Q2, SL2 cameras. I read here and spoke to my tech reps on what they used... I got a number of opinions from users from influencers I know to working photographers and of course Leica reps and techs. In fact there was a big event here in LA that brought us ALL together and I started shooting and the camera would have write errors slow me down and I had to pull the battery a number of times.

I pulled the card and I still had write errors to the internal memory. This happened in front of some "big wigs" at Leica USA and many folks helped me. Thing is, EACH PERSON HAD A DIFFERENT ANSWER. 

 

• Just use the internal memory. Change the card to XYZ UHS-II v90. 
• Oh, you are using flash, turn off Hybrid Shutter. (note: it happened even when I wasn't using flash)
• Use M or S instead of full resolution. Or like always use L resolution (wtf??)
• Instead of shooting one after another in single shot shutter mode, use low or high burst. Or just shoot less (wtf??).
• Turn off geotagging or just turn off Fotos when not in use.
• Save different profiles for different shooting. Keep it in the default (???)
• Use highlight weighted metering. 
• Don't use highlight weighted metering.

 

 

I literally filled up my profiles with each person I trusted's suggestions. Shot the camera for a few days only to Internal memory and it still happened (not as often, but it happened), this time an odd wifi icon came up when it would buffer.

I turned off Fotos, even deleted my connection and reconnected without geotagging. It worked fine for a bit, then I was shooting a night shoot.

I didn't switch the camera into low or High burst rate and tried to shoot it like I would have my M10R (fast repeated shutter presses), no flash, it buffered and slowed.  You get the picture, this is A LOT. This caused corrupted DNGs, wait looking like an idiot when someone wants a portrait or is waiting for me to shoot, but really it made me miss shots. Missing shots makes me mad. Missing shots makes me question the pandemic era construction of a new M and want to skip this generation all together. Except... the shots I DO get are very nice, maybe the best I have seen from any of my Leica cameras so I am willing to push through.

You get my point. Confusing... This is rather frustrating when I am shooting all of the time and just want my M to be my body armor on each shoot you know what I mean: my trusted partner, knowing I can rely on it.

 

But I think I get it. This isn't the end of my M11P journey, it's the beginning. 

 

I can surmise it's a few things. I pick up an M10 variant or M240 variant and there aren't all of these options, it just works. This was after multiple years of Firmware upgrades. We have to tell Leica what's up and hope there are software fixes.

I think besides the user options - which sounds like my elementary school age kid trying to learn math the NEW way and they are given so many points we can't read the math to help them - there are some conflicting technologies here (and I am not afraid of technology).

I think the reality is the design of the M and the realities of having modern mirrorless tech in this 1950s design, and trying to make all this software work is really daunting for the software engineers. The solution will be that the camera itself needs to change radically.

The M11 variants are the hard reboot of the M, and from here, each new iteration will be better and better. But we are the early adopters. I am not sure there even needs to be a mechanical shutter if the issues that cause freeze are the mechanical process of the shutter. Now that there is a global shutter on the market and Leica is at a premium, I would hope they buy into that tech.

I think a rangefinder is still OKAY but maybe not essential. I think the new lenses with 0.3 close focus may be preparing us for this.

I think those of us that want the ultimate old school digital M that has enough resolution and newish tech will keep the M10R, M10M (I will keep my M10M Leitz Wetzlar for a long time). I think the M11/M11M/M11P are visionary. With that vision comes caveats. This is a transitional camera that if you want to figure our YOUR way of shooting it, you can get some of the best images you have ever made.

 

But we have to be patient, and willing to circumnavigate the minor shit to get what we want.

[Robert Blanko]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb bilbrown:

...

I pulled the card and I still had write errors to the internal memory. This happened in front of some "big wigs" at Leica USA and many folks helped me. Thing is, EACH PERSON HAD A DIFFERENT ANSWER. 

 

• Just use the internal memory. Change the card to XYZ UHS-II v90. 
• Oh, you are using flash, turn off Hybrid Shutter. (note: it happened even when I wasn't using flash)
• Use M or S instead of full resolution. Or like always use L resolution (wtf??)
• Instead of shooting one after another in single shot shutter mode, use low or high burst. Or just shoot less (wtf??).
• Turn off geotagging or just turn off Fotos when not in use.
• Save different profiles for different shooting. Keep it in the default (???)
• Use highlight weighted metering. 
• Don't use highlight weighted metering.

 

...

This reminds me of the following joke:

A mechanical engineer, an electrical engineer and a software engineer are driving in a car. Suddenly the motor stutters and the car stops.

The mechanical engineer: I suppose this is caused by piston jamming. We have to call a taxi.

The electrical engineer: I suppose this is caused by a malfunction of the engine controller. We have to call the remote assistance of the car manufacturer to switch the controller to emergency operation function.

The software engineer: No problem guys - just close the windows, restart, open the windows again and let’s drive on.

 

[lct]

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On 11/14/2023 at 6:17 AM, bilbrown said:

Did you format them with SD Card Formatter then format in camera too? 
just trying to figure out best case

See my post below. Not sure i am the best person to ask though as i don't rely on in-camera formatting generally, especially in Leica cameras since i realised my M240 was slower to wake up than when using SD Card Formatter.

 

[Eesand]

after in camera reformatting like a week ago and several hundred clicks shooting dng mode only with the same proper card, I got one more corrupt dng on the m11m.  Again this one was first click after powering up.  There's a bug crawling around somewhere in 2.0.1 ...

[dwett]

I am having this issue as well with my M11, usually the first file is corrupt and I've tried both the Angel Bird 128gb AV Pro as well as the Sony Tough Drive 128gb, although seems less frequent with the Sony but I did notice another one today. 

Edit. I should add it's the first file after powering on as well.

Edited November 18, 2023 by dwett

[jaapv]

Well, that is the clue. My analysis is that in an effort to speed up startup time the camera enables the user to take the first shot earlier than the readiness to write the DNG. The temporary workaround should be not to use auto-shutoff as long as this is not fixed. 

[bilbrown]

On 11/17/2023 at 4:32 PM, Eesand said:

after in camera reformatting like a week ago and several hundred clicks shooting dng mode only with the same proper card, I got one more corrupt dng on the m11m.  Again this one was first click after powering up.  There's a bug crawling around somewhere in 2.0.1 ...

Man, this doesn't seem like a card read error at all.

I assure you this is the start-up time and also the mechanical shutter. I am no engineer, but I think we will be seeing a purely electronic (hopefully global) shutter in the M12. The rolling shutter of the M11 isn't horrible by any means, but I feel like hybrid or purely mechanical is causing these delays and possibly the DNG write errors. 

This must have been a design nightmare for the engineers... they have mostly done a good job, and likely firmware has fixed a lot of it, but this is a design issue with keeping the M11/M11M/M11-P still traditional when it comes to having a mechanical shutter operation. How do I know this? You can hear it. the three or four clicks that happen unless you are in Live View when you shoot. When shooting fast you think you are getting many photos and that is not the case, the camera doesn't take your shutter presses. 

I may just move to Live View and electronic shutter only for awhile (when I can at least) and see if that doesn't improve some of these snafus.

[hdmesa]

12 hours ago, bilbrown said:

Man, this doesn't seem like a card read error at all.

I assure you this is the start-up time and also the mechanical shutter. I am no engineer, but I think we will be seeing a purely electronic (hopefully global) shutter in the M12. The rolling shutter of the M11 isn't horrible by any means, but I feel like hybrid or purely mechanical is causing these delays and possibly the DNG write errors. 

This must have been a design nightmare for the engineers... they have mostly done a good job, and likely firmware has fixed a lot of it, but this is a design issue with keeping the M11/M11M/M11-P still traditional when it comes to having a mechanical shutter operation. How do I know this? You can hear it. the three or four clicks that happen unless you are in Live View when you shoot. When shooting fast you think you are getting many photos and that is not the case, the camera doesn't take your shutter presses. 

I may just move to Live View and electronic shutter only for awhile (when I can at least) and see if that doesn't improve some of these snafus.

In no way is this an engineering challenge. It’s literally how every other mirrorless camera works. Leica has it even easier because they don’t offer the option of EFCS mode (electronic front curtain shutter).

[bilbrown]

On 11/24/2023 at 12:15 PM, hdmesa said:

In no way is this an engineering challenge. It’s literally how every other mirrorless camera works. Leica has it even easier because they don’t offer the option of EFCS mode (electronic front curtain shutter).

Okay.

 

So then it is a design flaw (the M) or a engineering error, or software??

[hdmesa]

12 hours ago, bilbrown said:

Okay.

 

So then it is a design flaw (the M) or a engineering error, or software??

The issue of an occasional bad DNG wasn't happening before the most recent firmware update, so likely it's a bug they'll fix soon.

[FindYourZero]

On M11 with 128GB Lexar Professional SDXC V90II U3 Class 10 cards. Highest quality DNG + JPG to the SDXC and highspeed bursts.

Sometimes the camera will be stuck in the "processing" or "spinning arrow" state after bursts. Or first few shots shortly after power on. Which will result in unreadable files.

And the unreadable DNG issue started occacionally only after updating to F/W: 2.0.1 & 2.0.2
 

[kona]

I tried a few times to turn on the camera and press the shutter repeatedly as the camera was turning on until a picture was taken.

DNGs are all fine, but one time I did get an error message on the screen that the battery is empty, so I guess the camera doesn't like it when you press the shutter before it's ready. Turned the camera off and back on again and battery shows 100% again.

M11, v2.0.2, Sandisk Extreme Pro II V90 128GB.

[Eesand]

new discovery, under firmware 2.0.1, sandisk 128G, 300mb/sec extreme pro uhs II, camera won't write to it at all, worked fine earlier, reformatted in the camera just before this happened..  Display says: SD Card Error.  M11

Edited December 7, 2023 by Eesand

[Eesand]

reformatted the card in camera with v2.0.2 128 sandisk uhsII, extreme pro 300/sec, works fine  I dunno, I don't get it.

[fededuran]

On 11/4/2023 at 2:47 PM, Eesand said:

Using proper so card, and after upgrade, shooting in dng mode only, the first click after powering the camera up produces a corrupt dng file, both m11 and m11m. Only the first click all others just fine. I wonder whether power up takes longer or something. Anyone else?  Given it doesn’t do it every time, I am guessing about it not being quite ready even though it seems to be.  Likely sometimes after power up and first click will be a longer time, naturally  

thanks!

Same here plus another issue: after the last firmware update, both my M11 & M11M are unable to read the SD cards. I've formatted both several times but the problem persists. 

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[lct]

If SD Card Formatter did not fix the issues i would return the cameras.

Edited December 9, 2023 by lct