Vintage Leica Lenses on M11 with new Firmware

[thomi1]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I use vintage Leica lenses with original Leica adapters on my Leica M11 and M11 monochrome. With the new firmware, the camera shutter no longer opens when I use a lens with the screw to M adapter.  It also does not help when I use the manual lens profile.

Does anyone know how to solve this problem?

[jeri]

I can't think of a reason for the camera behaving the way you describe. Maybe Leica is tired of losing money by us using third party lenses. Regardless, this is, among other things, a good reason not to rush and load the new firmware update. For me, I'd rather wait to sit on the fence, and after the dust settles, I'll make a decision about loading the new firmware update.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by jeri

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jaapv]

If the adapters have a cutout for the focus knob that may be the problem. It is quite possible that Leica has changed the algorithms for lens recognition and that the six-bit sensor has become more sensitive to stray light. Block the cutout by  a piece of tape to try if buying new adapters without cutout will solve the problem.

[lct]

2 hours ago, thomi1 said:

With the new firmware, the camera shutter no longer opens when I use a lens with the screw to M adapter.  It also does not help when I use the manual lens profile.

2 hours ago, jeri said:

I'd rather wait to sit on the fence, and after the dust settles, I'll make a decision about loading the new firmware update.

+1. I see no excuse for such a behavior.

 

 

[jeri]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

+1. I see no excuse for such a behavior.

😉

 

 

[Stef63]

I'd like to reference my previous post from another thread. It appears that the lens detection sensors are designed to close the shutter, presumably based on Leica's assumption that a lens isn't attached when the sensors are exposed. As @jaapv mentioned, some adapters have a cutout, leaving the sensors exposed. The behavior of the M11, with its latest firmware, can vary based on the light detected by the sensors.  For instance, covering them with your finger might affect the outcome. When capturing a photo, the M11 might either open the shutter first or, worse, take a shot with the shutter closed. I believe this "feature" is quite nonsensical.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Stef63

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, lct said:

+1. I see no excuse for such a behavior.

 

 

The potential reason is given in my post...Probably using adapters that are not intended to be used on a digital M. 

[lct]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

The potential reason is given in my post...Probably using adapters that are not intended to be used on a digital M. 

This doesn't explain why it does'nt work when using a manual lens profile as mentioned by @thomi1. Under firwmware 1.6.1, you can use 35mm LTM lenses with adapters for 90mm provided you select a 35mm profile manually. The M11 will then recognize the lens as a 35mm in spite of the faulty adapter.

[UliWer]

What happens when you switch off lens detection? Does the shutter of an M11 close when you use an adapter with the spareout or even if no lens is attached?

When you have lens detection of the M10 switched on and the sensor of the 6-bit-code is not fully covered, you can't use Liveview and the display tells you that no lens is attached. When you switch lens detection off there is no problem.

So, can you "work around" the new Firmware for the M11 by switching off lens detection? Will the shutter open for exposure metering? 

[Stef63]

Nope.  Very good suggestion, but with lens detection off the shutter still closes when no lens is mounted or when a not fully covering adapter is used.  
When you press the shutter button in this case the picture is taken with the shutter still closed.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Stef63

[setuporg]

100% this will be configurable in 2.1.0:)

[hmzimelka]

One can still capture images with the shutter in its closed position. You'll just have to shoot manually. Really hoping this "feature" will become a menu selectable item in a future update.

[Stef63]

2 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

One can still capture images with the shutter in its closed position. You'll just have to shoot manually. Really hoping this "feature" will become a menu selectable item in a future update.

True, but in most cases when using a lens with an adapter, you will rely on an EVF to focus (and compose).  With the shutter closed, that is challenging to say the least.

[lct]

20 hours ago, lct said:

This doesn't explain why it does'nt work when using a manual lens profile as mentioned by @thomi1. Under firwmware 1.6.1, you can use 35mm LTM lenses with adapters for 90mm provided you select a 35mm profile manually. The M11 will then recognize the lens as a 35mm in spite of the faulty adapter.

I can't seem to see any difference under firmware 2.0.1 so i don't understand what happened to @thomi1 exactly.

[hmzimelka]

22 hours ago, lct said:

This doesn't explain why it does'nt work when using a manual lens profile as mentioned by @thomi1. Under firwmware 1.6.1, you can use 35mm LTM lenses with adapters for 90mm provided you select a 35mm profile manually. The M11 will then recognize the lens as a 35mm in spite of the faulty adapter.

Thomi1's adapter must be spoofing the sensor into thinking no lens is attached. As has been mentioned in the thread, the adapter either doesn't completely cover the lens code reader, or there is some light contamination, etc. Either way, the camera is tricked into a no lens situation. Previous firmware would allow the camera to continue shooting and working, with the only difference that the exif would have read error or uncoded lens in the lens exif.

How does your camera recognise a 35mm lens when a 90mm adapter is used? Aren't the framelines paired as 28/90, 35/135, 50/75? When no lens is attached, the camera defaults to 35/135. Unless you just want 35mm in exif, the framelines would still be incorrect if you manually select a 35mm profile in camera.

 

This new feature isn't an intelligent one, let alone a robust one since it can easily be spoofed. Just sitting here in my office with the camera switched on and lens off, pointing the camera to half open blinds (no direct light) has the camera open and then close the shutter intermittently. So it's not exactly as reliable as switching off the camera and switching it back on. 

 

 

It's a feature that is trivially useless and downright frustrating because someone at Leica thought they had a good idea and didn't think it through thoroughly. I'm certain Leica will address this, because they advertised that the M11 can be used with ANY Leica lens. That includes adapted M39 lenses by my logic...

Edited October 29, 2023 by hmzimelka

[lct]

1 hour ago, hmzimelka said:

How does your camera recognise a 35mm lens when a 90mm adapter is used? Aren't the framelines paired as 28/90, 35/135, 50/75? When no lens is attached, the camera defaults to 35/135. Unless you just want 35mm in exif, the framelines would still be incorrect if you manually select a 35mm profile in camera.

Even if it brings up 90mm frame lines in the OVF, a 90mm LTM lens on a 90mm adapter can be taken for a 35mm lens  if a 35mm lens profile is chosen manually by the user. Was true under firmware 1.6.1 and still true under firmware 2.0.1 according to my 5 minutes experience with the latter.

[hmzimelka]

Well, I'm not following what your arguments have to do with the original subject at hand then... if the camera doesn't recognise a lens attached, it now closes the shutter. 

 

[Photoworks]

Is anyone Missing a Sensor cleaning option? now there is no control over the Shutter.!

I have tried the Blower in "B", but if I want to use the wet cleaner I can only have that many hands to keep the shutter open.

[hmzimelka]

27 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

Is anyone Missing a Sensor cleaning option? now there is no control over the Shutter.!

I have tried the Blower in "B", but if I want to use the wet cleaner I can only have that many hands to keep the shutter open.

Camera Settings / Sensor Cleaning

Still there for me

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[lct]

2 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

[...] if the camera doesn't recognise a lens attached, it now closes the shutter. [...]

Happens only in one case in my admittedly very short experience: when there is no lens attached or, at least, when the camera believes so. Camera says "No Lens" then and firmware 2.0.1 closes the shutter. In cases where a lens is attached and is not recognised by the camera, the latter says "Uncoded" and does not close the shutter. Easy to check in LV mode but i suspect it is the same in RF mode as well.