jdlaing Posted October 26, 2023 Share #81 Posted October 26, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just now, Antonio Russell said: Good for Adobe and co. But its worthless in terms of proving x person took y photo. It’s not meant to prove a person took a picture. It’s to prove the picture was unaltered or manipulated to deceive. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 26, 2023 Posted October 26, 2023 Hi jdlaing, Take a look here Leica M11-P: New Flagship With Content Authentication . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
setuporg Posted October 26, 2023 Share #82 Posted October 26, 2023 You cannot prove a person took a photo unless you blend their DNA into it... Perhaps M12 will have a DNA intake valve! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 27, 2023 Share #83 Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) Content Authentication overview from the Product Manager here, at about 14 min. mark… As he discusses, a time stamp functionality is still being explored. Jeff Edited October 27, 2023 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbrown Posted October 27, 2023 Share #84 Posted October 27, 2023 9 hours ago, PhilipThomas said: Was there an update to how the shutter sounds, like a dampened version similar to the M10-P? It's pretty quiet. Silent if you use the electronic shutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbrown Posted October 27, 2023 Share #85 Posted October 27, 2023 3 hours ago, irenedp said: The Royal Photographic Society admits that alterations in photographs have happened historically and that there is a grey area on what is material in a photograph. One thing is to do an alteration such as eliminating cables or people and another to create “new” things that are material to the photograph. This is ongoing but most discussions set up that line, and jurors tend to agree. The statement below is clear, referring to entirely generative images or images with material elements entirely generated by an AI Sincerely, I think the “certification” is opportunistic and does not add value. The raw file (or files, when taking a panorama) is more than enough The RPS remains committed to the principle that photographs should be the original work of the creator(s), so entirely generative images, or images with material elements entirely generated by AI will not be permitted for Distinction submissions, exhibitions and competitions. What constitutes material in this context is a grey area, and something the RPS will continue to explore with its creative community. The RPS will accept the use of algorithmic processing in-camera or in post-processing software, which supports digital photography for Distinction submissions, exhibitions and competitions, on the condition that photographers are clear and open where such tools have been used. The RPS will trust in the integrity of its community but in certain circumstances may request further evidence in the form of RAW files or EXIF data, accepting that such evidence may itself not be definitive.” The point is, and I STRONGLY advocate authenticity so I will try to be brief. It's not that you or anyone manipulates photos, we all do it more or less. What we are dealing with in 2023 (and beyond) is software based manipulation that can completely alter REALITY when it comes to photos that are not used simply to show artistic merit but are determined by their information. This technology is based in the SAME demoising tech that digital image capture is. AI images that mimic photos are looking more and more like digital photography that is taken of a real scene. Any way of tracking what the original image was as opposed to the final presented image can be useful in manifesting factual data in the image, truth is of course from the image author's perspective. That isn't going to change. I feel like this tech is just as important as the creation of a group of photographers that took the power away from individual editors and collected together to make an agency to save our ass and also maybe distribute images of historical consequence that were not otherwise available if said editors did not want it to be seen. We have to think of our archives, and history, and not just if you are a documentary photographer. As the essence of any photo we take is documenting the moment we take it. 3 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjphoto Posted October 27, 2023 Share #86 Posted October 27, 2023 Now you can have confirmed authentic cat pics! 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted October 27, 2023 Share #87 Posted October 27, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Joking aside, the CAI stuff does make it possible to record the source (yes, camera, not photographer) and the subsequent manipulations done to an image (again, only to some practical level of detail). Not something I desperately need, but interesting. Of course, I have to wonder if this only works within a Lightroom/Photoshop workflow. Some of the limitations are explored in the Jesko/HughB video a page or so back. No time stamps until they figure out how to authenticate it. Location would be nice, but GPS is external and Leica's implementation of the connection to your smartphone is not highly reliable. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 27, 2023 Share #88 Posted October 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said: Some of the limitations are explored in the Jesko/HughB video a page or so back. Same page, 4 posts above. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMF Posted October 27, 2023 Share #89 Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) Duplicate Edited October 27, 2023 by RMF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
irenedp Posted October 27, 2023 Share #90 Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, bilbrown said: The point is, and I STRONGLY advocate authenticity so I will try to be brief. It's not that you or anyone manipulates photos, we all do it more or less. What we are dealing with in 2023 (and beyond) is software based manipulation that can completely alter REALITY when it comes to photos that are not used simply to show artistic merit but are determined by their information. This technology is based in the SAME demoising tech that digital image capture is. AI images that mimic photos are looking more and more like digital photography that is taken of a real scene. Any way of tracking what the original image was as opposed to the final presented image can be useful in manifesting factual data in the image, truth is of course from the image author's perspective. That isn't going to change. I feel like this tech is just as important as the creation of a group of photographers that took the power away from individual editors and collected together to make an agency to save our ass and also maybe distribute images of historical consequence that were not otherwise available if said editors did not want it to be seen. We have to think of our archives, and history, and not just if you are a documentary photographer. As the essence of any photo we take is documenting the moment we take it. I don’t work as a Photo Journalist, but I have friends and colleagues who do so. They are not allowed to manipulate images, other than straighten them. There has been a lot of controversy even by cropping. The raw has so far been enough -and I believe it will continue to be so- and editors are self policing. Regarding my own work, it would be ridiculous to make a fake portrait or photograph a landscape that doesn’t exist. If I take a hand held panorama with a 28 mm I will have a “butterfly” stitch and may have to fill a piece of sky or ground. When I take it with the S3 or the Phase One on a tripod and a T/S lens the image will need no fill at all. I have never been asked for proof but the raws -as the RPS statement says- should suffice. I have seen the point of major alterations since a guy won the World Press Photo with a fabricated image. It is important that people can trust that a photo in a newspaper is authentic. But I don’t think that this will be resolved by a manufacturer whose products aren’t used by photojournalism, particularly in a model where just the body retails above 8000 $. I use often my two Ms for work -none of them purchased new, btw- the reason being traveling light and not intimidating -which I arguably might with two Z9 bodies-. But I have all the time in the world to compose and focus. I don’t carry a press badge. Photojournalists are heavily policed and they will be even more so in the future. And Leica have little to do with that. Edited October 27, 2023 by irenedp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 27, 2023 Share #91 Posted October 27, 2023 More information here. The big players are all members so this could filter through to being an industry standard. Useful for those wanting to prove a work is completely photographic. Members — Content Authenticity Initiative Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Russell Posted October 27, 2023 Share #92 Posted October 27, 2023 6 hours ago, jdlaing said: It’s not meant to prove a person took a picture. It’s to prove the picture was unaltered or manipulated to deceive. Then why are Leica marketing it as such? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edax Posted October 27, 2023 Share #93 Posted October 27, 2023 M11 8750 Euro, M11-P 8950 Euro. For only 200 Euro 256 GB storage, sapphire glass on monitor, engraved top logo, no ugly red dot, and the LCC feature... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreasG Posted October 27, 2023 Share #94 Posted October 27, 2023 Who can explain me why the camera has different order Nos. country by country resp. region by region? It can't be the AC charger or its plug. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/383483-leica-m11-p-new-flagship-with-content-authentication/?do=findComment&comment=4883594'>More sharing options...
costa43 Posted October 27, 2023 Share #95 Posted October 27, 2023 The m11p seems like the it is the way to go if you are looking for a new m11 generation camera as the cost difference is negligible at it’s asking price, but there is not enough here to warrant an upgrade from a standard m11 or in my case an m10r. The 28mm summicron looks good though. Has there been an update on whether it shares the same optical formula as the current asph v2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 27, 2023 Share #96 Posted October 27, 2023 8 hours ago, setuporg said: You cannot prove a person took a photo unless you blend their DNA into it... Perhaps M12 will have a DNA intake valve! What is the problem to blend somebody else’s DNA in? Reading out a passport chip would be an easier way to determine and embed identity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeri Posted October 27, 2023 Share #97 Posted October 27, 2023 The Leica M12 will come with a Green Pass configuration built into it. In other words, if you didn't take the Big Pharma vaccinations on time, expect a faulty camera. It will be mandatory, and you won't be able to change or cancel it. as a paraphrase of Neil Armstrong's words; One small step for humanity, One big step for Leica Big Brother. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IzelPhotography Posted October 27, 2023 Share #98 Posted October 27, 2023 8 hours ago, setuporg said: You cannot prove a person took a photo unless you blend their DNA into it... Perhaps M12 will have a DNA intake valve! Humm... I could see it now. A hidden needle under the shutter that reveals itself as you depress it and pierces the skin... collects a blood sample, records your DNA and informs you as to whether your blood sugars are low 🤔🤣 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreasG Posted October 27, 2023 Share #99 Posted October 27, 2023 It is only a matter of time that tools will be made available to alter or delete the content authentication data. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudgerer Posted October 27, 2023 Share #100 Posted October 27, 2023 Is it just me or is there a "ho-hum" about this release of the M11-P? Much ado about pretty much nothing? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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