kiwidad Posted January 12 Share #121 Posted January 12 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 1/3/2024 at 11:07 PM, Photojoejoe21 said: Those sound like incredible consumer laws. I just looked it up. That is so cool. Good country for a camera owner to live in!! Yeah it's kinda nutty. The proof on this board too that it's kind of wide spread is even more nutty to me. those laws also contribute to the much higher price for consumer goods in Australia! NZ has had similar laws for years and technologies crazy expensive there also Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 12 Posted January 12 Hi kiwidad, Take a look here M11 service problems: a sign of bigger underlying issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
la1402 Posted January 12 Share #122 Posted January 12 (edited) On 1/6/2024 at 4:57 PM, Al Brown said: You must have gotten one of three that were 100% in order. Lucky man. More than three - another one here. Mine is great if I consider the embedded Leica Look, aka Magenta Cast, as an undesirable feature instead of a fault 😉 Edited January 12 by la1402 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTheHappy Posted January 13 Share #123 Posted January 13 Hello all, First of, I am happy to join the Leica Forum here & thank you for this opportunity to post my situation here. Currently I am not a Leica owner yet, but I am on the verge of selling almost all my current gear (Nikon and partially Fuji X system) to get into Leica M family and my original plan has been to purchase used M11 from an authorized reseller. I am working for a global tech company which has their HQ near the 'Foto Goerlitz' authorized reseller and during my next business trip to our HQ in Germany I was planning to buy one. But after reading lot of comments on the recent quality issues and also this thread, I am really becoming unsure about my original intent. Lot of people are reporting all kinds of issues with M11, mostly mechanical (rangefinder misalignment) and software related (freezing, long startup times, weird shutter release behaviors, overexposed or underexposed images) and these facts have started a process of reconsideration of my plans. TBH, initially I was planning to get any digital M and just two lenses. But when turned back, there was almost nothing to select from: M8 half frame, M9/M240 sensor corrosion/dead horizontal pixels issues, currently the issues of M11... So for me eventually only M10-R, M10-P seemed most 'safe' Ms to get. There is a major roadblock in my brain which I can hardly control and which is saying it's completely ridiculous to give up top-of-the-line Nikon and Fuji gear which never saw a service center over those almost 10 years to get one camera which - due to those several issues - may fail at the most unwanted moments. What I found interesting also is that while newest electronic models have quiet fast repair times at Wetzlar (few weeks), older mechanical Ms require repair times in the units of months so this leads me into conclusion that people who were building the brand over last decades and who were helping Leica to be understood as the showcase of world-class German engineering are simply gone while their knowledge and skills were transferred onto young people only partially. I can also see this in my country (Czechia) that more and more younger people are avoiding study of technical fields in our universities and they rather prefer human studies. For the company which mostly relies on golden hands, top of the notch hand made products and extraordinary mechanical perfection built by one's hands will be the lack of skilled mechanical engineers more and more critical. Anyway, I will travel to Foto Goerlitz to see what they have in stock now and hopefully they will be also able to openly discuss on these things and I will see if I bring home an M11 or M10R/P. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted January 13 Share #124 Posted January 13 4 hours ago, LukeTheHappy said: I will travel to Foto Goerlitz You might want to reconsider, he is one of the most expensive scalpers on the market… Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianforber Posted January 13 Share #125 Posted January 13 4 hours ago, LukeTheHappy said: Anyway, I will travel to Foto Goerlitz to see what they have in stock now and hopefully they will be also able to openly discuss on these things and I will see if I bring home an M11 or M10R/P. Welcome to the forum! There’s a wealth of experience, opinions and a desire to help so I hope you’ll find what you want here. I too would worry about selling all your current camera equipment and devoting yourself to Leica but it depends whether you are a professional photographer or a hobbyist like me. My only cameras now are a Q2 and an M11. I’ve never had an issue with my M11 and it’s possible that there are many others like me, it’s just that they don’t need to say much of their camera is working fine. Sadly, that is not the case for many here who have had awful experiences with their cameras. Please let us know how you get on. Personally, I doubt there is much difference between a M10-R and a M11 aside from the baseplate/battery. Some people with extensive experience of the M system have commented about the different shutter sound and metering but I’ve never known anything else: I’ve had several people comment on how quiet the camera is and I like the sound. Only someone with their ear pressed up against the camera would notice anyway! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotium Posted January 13 Share #126 Posted January 13 (edited) On 1/12/2024 at 7:23 AM, Fritz Fritz said: Update from my previous post: I sent my M11 to the Leica in New Jersey for repair (freezing, corrupt images) in November. I also sent them an SD card that has had corrupt images on it. Last week they called me saying they had it on their bench for the morning and couldn't reproduce any of my issues. Additionally, I was told that it's probably just a firmware issue (the issue they can't reproduce mind you). They sent the body and SD card back and I received it on Wednesday. Upon opening, I took 17 frames at my desk. This was using the same SD card they had. I had one freeze and one corrupt image. I'm wondering what testing they actually did. I've emailed Leica back but haven't received a response so far. Perhaps 2+ days to get a response is normal? So I'm properly stuck with this camera now -- Leica proper can't fix it and won't replace it. Buyer beware. I sympathize. Have been there. Edited January 14 by gotium Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
la1402 Posted January 14 Share #127 Posted January 14 Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 hours ago, LukeTheHappy said: Hello all, First of, I am happy to join the Leica Forum here & thank you for this opportunity to post my situation here. Currently I am not a Leica owner yet, but I am on the verge of selling almost all my current gear (Nikon and partially Fuji X system) to get into Leica M family and my original plan has been to purchase used M11 from an authorized reseller. I am working for a global tech company which has their HQ near the 'Foto Goerlitz' authorized reseller and during my next business trip to our HQ in Germany I was planning to buy one. But after reading lot of comments on the recent quality issues and also this thread, I am really becoming unsure about my original intent. Lot of people are reporting all kinds of issues with M11, mostly mechanical (rangefinder misalignment) and software related (freezing, long startup times, weird shutter release behaviors, overexposed or underexposed images) and these facts have started a process of reconsideration of my plans. TBH, initially I was planning to get any digital M and just two lenses. But when turned back, there was almost nothing to select from: M8 half frame, M9/M240 sensor corrosion/dead horizontal pixels issues, currently the issues of M11... So for me eventually only M10-R, M10-P seemed most 'safe' Ms to get. There is a major roadblock in my brain which I can hardly control and which is saying it's completely ridiculous to give up top-of-the-line Nikon and Fuji gear which never saw a service center over those almost 10 years to get one camera which - due to those several issues - may fail at the most unwanted moments. What I found interesting also is that while newest electronic models have quiet fast repair times at Wetzlar (few weeks), older mechanical Ms require repair times in the units of months so this leads me into conclusion that people who were building the brand over last decades and who were helping Leica to be understood as the showcase of world-class German engineering are simply gone while their knowledge and skills were transferred onto young people only partially. I can also see this in my country (Czechia) that more and more younger people are avoiding study of technical fields in our universities and they rather prefer human studies. For the company which mostly relies on golden hands, top of the notch hand made products and extraordinary mechanical perfection built by one's hands will be the lack of skilled mechanical engineers more and more critical. Anyway, I will travel to Foto Goerlitz to see what they have in stock now and hopefully they will be also able to openly discuss on these things and I will see if I bring home an M11 or M10R/P. I don’t know whether it makes sense to sell everything you have for an M as it depends what you use it for. I wouldn’t and most likely, it makes no sense as the M system is limited in many ways. But whether that is detrimental or helpful in focusing on “das Wesentliche” 🤪🫣😂 depends on you. Having said that, I believe the M11 is the best M in the market and well worth the premium over the others. You should definitely buy from a reputable dealer but as mentioned before, while Photo Görlitz managed to be very present in the German market, they are quite expensive, too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeTheHappy Posted January 14 Share #128 Posted January 14 Thank you, Al, Ian and la1402 for your replies. I am a prosumer photographer (my work can be found here) who is time by time also asked to shoot events. I have decided to keep along with a new Leica, also one Fuji body and two lenses (X-Pro3, 23/1.4 WR and Viltrox 75/1.2). Also thanks on the hints about Foto Goerlitz - I have noticed they are quite expensive, but they seem to have everything on stock and as an EU citizen I don't need to pay e.g. import cost and everything is in basically. Some sellers on eBay especially from Hong-Kong and Japan who also have a good reputation there do have interesting offers too but with import cost to EU (customs, VAT), I am plus minus on Goerlitz prices. Anyway, I think my plan is clear now: as much clean M11 as possible, try to avoid first production year, at least with 6-12 months warranty and preferably sold by authorised reseller. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtoleica Posted January 14 Share #129 Posted January 14 Dear Lukas, looking at your work I think the M will suit you, though it’s always wise to have an alternative AF camera if you need to shoot events. Do carefully read the differences between the 10-P/R and the 11. I chose to get a 10-P instead as it suited me better for a whole raft of reasons. I think it’s a perfectly valid choice to get a 10 series over an 11. The one I got had been serviced by Leica (though interestingly they had had it three times. Once to replace the LCD, which had been scratched, back straight away to reattach the leather which was crooked and back immediately again to reattach the Wi-Fi antenna which had been left disconnected….all be previous owner). It’s been perfect in my year of ownership. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted January 14 Share #130 Posted January 14 21 hours ago, LukeTheHappy said: Hello all, First of, I am happy to join the Leica Forum here & thank you for this opportunity to post my situation here. Currently I am not a Leica owner yet, but I am on the verge of selling almost all my current gear (Nikon and partially Fuji X system) to get into Leica M family and my original plan has been to purchase used M11 from an authorized reseller. I am working for a global tech company which has their HQ near the 'Foto Goerlitz' authorized reseller and during my next business trip to our HQ in Germany I was planning to buy one. But after reading lot of comments on the recent quality issues and also this thread, I am really becoming unsure about my original intent. Lot of people are reporting all kinds of issues with M11, mostly mechanical (rangefinder misalignment) and software related (freezing, long startup times, weird shutter release behaviors, overexposed or underexposed images) and these facts have started a process of reconsideration of my plans. TBH, initially I was planning to get any digital M and just two lenses. But when turned back, there was almost nothing to select from: M8 half frame, M9/M240 sensor corrosion/dead horizontal pixels issues, currently the issues of M11... So for me eventually only M10-R, M10-P seemed most 'safe' Ms to get. There is a major roadblock in my brain which I can hardly control and which is saying it's completely ridiculous to give up top-of-the-line Nikon and Fuji gear which never saw a service center over those almost 10 years to get one camera which - due to those several issues - may fail at the most unwanted moments. What I found interesting also is that while newest electronic models have quiet fast repair times at Wetzlar (few weeks), older mechanical Ms require repair times in the units of months so this leads me into conclusion that people who were building the brand over last decades and who were helping Leica to be understood as the showcase of world-class German engineering are simply gone while their knowledge and skills were transferred onto young people only partially. I can also see this in my country (Czechia) that more and more younger people are avoiding study of technical fields in our universities and they rather prefer human studies. For the company which mostly relies on golden hands, top of the notch hand made products and extraordinary mechanical perfection built by one's hands will be the lack of skilled mechanical engineers more and more critical. Anyway, I will travel to Foto Goerlitz to see what they have in stock now and hopefully they will be also able to openly discuss on these things and I will see if I bring home an M11 or M10R/P. For what it's worth, I've been using the M10-R and M10M (two of each) for more than three years and they have worked flawlessly. No freezes, no bad frames, decent battery life. I couldn't be happier. One caveat; I have never used Live View with any of them. I have no idea if that is a contributor to some reported problems but it's my opinion that anything that causes additional heat buildup in the camera is best avoided. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted January 14 Share #131 Posted January 14 5 hours ago, fotografr said: For what it's worth, I've been using the M10-R and M10M (two of each) for more than three years and they have worked flawlessly. No freezes, no bad frames, decent battery life. I couldn't be happier. One caveat; I have never used Live View with any of them. I have no idea if that is a contributor to some reported problems but it's my opinion that anything that causes additional heat buildup in the camera is best avoided. @fotografr I am starting to think that perhaps overheating is the key to a lot of the M11 issues. That, and rapid fire shooting that can logjam the buffer (my M240 would get log jammed, but my M-P 240 with 2x the buffer size never has log jammed on me). It also seems that the Leica FOTOS app causes some users problems. These are just conclusions that I have come to based on reading user experiences as posted on this forum - not based on personal experience. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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