Q3 or Sony A7CR

[Rdf]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 minutes ago, Cogito said:

my favorite is the Batis 85mm, believe it or not, for street. got incredible shots at demonstrations and rallys. 

I’m envious, and don’t doubt it. Have fun!  I think I enjoyed the 40mm  Batis the most. To me the slightly wide normal view with the rendering were very pleasing. (I wish Leica made a Q like that.) 

[Qwertynm]

I was just browsing trough my LR library and compared some Canon R5 vs Leica Q3 shots and have to say... I prefer the Leica Colors out of camera (both raw files with standard color profile applied). Question to the Sony Users in here, who also have a Q3. Is the sensor in the A7CR or A7RV similar in color rendition to the Q3?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[SrMi]

9 hours ago, Qwertynm said:

I was just browsing trough my LR library and compared some Canon R5 vs Leica Q3 shots and have to say... I prefer the Leica Colors out of camera (both raw files with standard color profile applied). Question to the Sony Users in here, who also have a Q3. Is the sensor in the A7CR or A7RV similar in color rendition to the Q3?

I am pretty sure Q3 does not have the same sensor as Sony cameras, as Q3's sensor has been tuned for the specific lens used. While the silicon substrate may be the same in Sony and Q3, it has probably the most negligible influence on the color achieved. The final color output is affected by CFA, glass thickness, firmware, profiles, etc.

[nicci78]

It is well known that the filters stack upon the sensor is a trade secret specific to every manufacturer. 
The sensor is the same.
The processing unit may or may not the be same. (There are only 3 providers : Sony, Fujitsu and Canon. Leica is using Fujitsu)
However the filters stack is definitely never the same, it is  tailor made for their own lenses needs. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by nicci78

[jaapv]

People are always confusing this Nicci. A sensor is just an analog light measuring device. The filters, ADC converters and firmware  create the output. 

[adrianh]

On 10/21/2023 at 3:58 PM, viramati said:

I like the idea of the small size the A7Cr but it really is just too handicapped in comparison to the A7r5 

Indeed, and if you put the grip extension on, it's more or less the same size. The EVF quality decision is hard to swallow too.  The A7Cii is at least in some relevant categories superior to its peer, the A7IV, but the A7Cr has besides auto framing nothing more than the A7R5. The A7R5 is a sensational camera for the money... But you will miss the Leica menus for sure. I just picked up the M11 today to update the firmware and it was such a joy again...

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

23 hours ago, adrianh said:

Indeed, and if you put the grip extension on, it's more or less the same size. The EVF quality decision is hard to swallow too.  The A7Cii is at least in some relevant categories superior to its peer, the A7IV, but the A7Cr has besides auto framing nothing more than the A7R5. The A7R5 is a sensational camera for the money... But you will miss the Leica menus for sure. I just picked up the M11 today to update the firmware and it was such a joy again...

True but I'm using my A7CR a lot more than my A7R5. I've hardly picked the latter up at all. With something compact, like the Zeiss 55mm 1.8 it feels much smaller than the A7R5 in the hand. For lenses like that you don't use the grip. And if a lens is big enough to use the grip I'm likely to use the R5 anyway. The A7CR is lighter than my Olympus Pen F digital body, which is remarkable.

On paper the differences seem small. In the hand they're much bigger.

Gordon

[adrianh]

Agreed, same here. I use the A7Cii with either a compact zoom or primes, especially Leica M lenses on adapter. Playing with the Techart AF Adapter, so far very unimpressed. Slow and unreliable. Will give it next week another chance before I decide to  send it back. 

I have ordered the SmallRig grip extensions for both the A7RV and the A7Cii, they fit very nicely and have Arca Swiss plates. 

[LarryR]

I looked at a ACR the other day. Very nice camera and I own a A1 with all sony G/GM primes from 14 - 135. I also own a few Sony zooms. So, there’s some impetus to buy the Sony. With the extender base, the sony and the my leica Q2 are the same height and with the sony 28 prime they are very close to the same size. I own numerous batteries and CFExpress ‘a’ cards. Again, there’s a real impetus to buy the sony. But, I think I’ll wait for a Q3.

Reasons:

• the q3 has a much better evf and apparently a much more high resolution screen. I much prefer the Leica tilt screen to the sony flip out, rotate system

•.the q3, like my q2, means I travel with only 1 lens. Most of my work these days is landscape and the Leica ‘28’, which may be more like a 26 or 27 is close to ideal. Sony does not offer an equally high quality, small, fast  28. 

• I dont think there’s much difference in quality of results between the two cameras. I prefer the weight and feel of the Leica.

LR, Bozeman, MT

[liggy]

On 10/17/2023 at 4:58 AM, clasami said:

Change of mind 🙂 Got the a7cR today. Why? I have read a great article about cropping and the Q: https://www.macfilos.com/2023/06/07/digital-zoom-part-ii-the-crop-to-zoom-debate-continues-as-leica-q3-adds-yet-another-telephoto-crop/  There are links to other articles and they all convinced me that the future of my photography is in cameras with plenty of MPs and cropping. Turning excellent lenses into dual or tri-focal lenses. But it is not a replacement for the Q3. It is an extension for tele and UAW. Or when the 16-35PZ can be turned into a 16-70, possibly 105. Holding the a7cR I am amazed at how small and light it is.

Not looking to duplcate the Q3 - but the I might give the FE28f2 another try.

I had a change of heart in the meantime as well.  Decided to replace my A1 backup (A9II) with an A7RV.  Made a lowball offer on GT that to my surprise was accepted.  Should be a great vacation shooter and backup to A1.

Go-to travel kit will be A7RV with 20-70 F4 and Q2 for night/casual instead of a fast prime like the 35 1.4GM and maybe a tele if appropriate.  

[adrianh]

I just returned from a trip to Capetown that I did with the A7Rv and the A7Cii. Besides of the heavy zooms, I had the 40mm G2.5 for the evenings, as well as the compact 20-70 and 16-35 zooms for when I wanted to move around with a light kit, therefore leaving the Q3 at home.

The positives: the A7Cii is an impressive kit of tech, the AF is sensational, the grip makes it very handy and in my opinion way better to hold than the Q3 even with the external grip. There are some great zooms on the smaller side (20-70 and 16-35) as well as the G-Prime lenses. The new menu structure (same as in A7Rv) is great as one can have the best of both worlds: a plethora of settings to setup the camera in 2 (Photo/Video) perfect ways for the own workflow or one simple menu with the most important settings. 

The negatives: the EVF and the back display. The former infuriates me, the latter does not help much to alleviate my pain. While the G Primes feel premium, they are still not on the same level as the Q-lens or a M-lens. I am also not the biggest fan of how the 40 2.5 draws, but this is highly subjective. There is also a lack of premium 28mm and 35mm light and premium lenses.  

My conclusion: the A7Rv fits me like a glove, with the A7Cii I can't bond. Whenever I want or need flexibility and sensational IQ, I will use the A7Rv. For evenings or shorter trips, I will take the Q3. The A7c-ii is surely a great camera but just not for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by adrianh

[keeping_a_balance]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:52 PM, adrianh said:

My A7CII arrived today so I took some quick pics with different lenses attached to check the size differences.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks for the pics. Curious on your experience with the Techart adapter.  How is it working in terms of hit rate.  I tried one on the Nikon Z and was not terribly impressed.

Also, Does the A7C have any manual capture assistants, like zooming in for critical focus is focusing manually?

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[adrianh]

13 hours ago, keeping_a_balance said:

Thanks for the pics. Curious on your experience with the Techart adapter.  How is it working in terms of hit rate.  I tried one on the Nikon Z and was not terribly impressed. Also, Does the A7C have any manual capture assistants, like zooming in for critical focus is focusing manually? Thanks in advance.

Techart adapter was sent back after only 3 days. Not impressed either. It's so randomly hit and miss that I would not want to use it. I'd rather focus manually all the time. And for that, I have a cheap adapter. A7C hat all relevant MF assistants. You just have to programm them on a button as only electronically coupled MF lenses (like the Loxias) will have auto magnification and focus peaking the moment you start moving the focusing ring. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by adrianh

[keeping_a_balance]

10 hours ago, adrianh said:

Techart adapter was sent back after only 3 days. Not impressed either. It's so randomly hit and miss that I would not want to use it. I'd rather focus manually all the time. And for that, I have a cheap adapter. A7C hat all relevant MF assistants. You just have to programm them on a button as only electronically coupled MF lenses (like the Loxias) will have auto magnification and focus peaking the moment you start moving the focusing ring. 

Thank you for the feedback!

[Alex1976]

On 10/9/2023 at 12:02 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Picked up my A7CR a couple of days ago. Lots of drivel in this thread. What's with the camera comparison picture that shows a different camera and a 1.4 lens??

1. The A7CR with Sony 28/2 is smaller and lighter than the Q3. Resolution across the frame is about the same. The Q3 lens is slightly wider and it draws better. It's also a 1/4 stop faster. The Sony doesn't suffer from as much digital enhancement in the corners so it's a wash. There's some sample variation in the Sony 28/2 but mine is razor sharp.

2. The Sony colour science has improved a lot but the Leica still has better colour out of the box.

3. The A7CR autofocus embarrasses the Q3. The Sony IBIS is better too.

4. You can't get a 61MP 50mm image from the Q3 so unless you REALLY like a 26-27mm lens.........

5 There's over a dozen great lens options for the Sony that keep the size similar to the Q3. The f2 Sigma's are very very nice and my personal favourite the 55mm 1.8 is sensational on the Sony. What's missing is a 105-120mm small sharp AF option. You can also use the f4 zooms with no handling issues.

6. The Sony sits in the hand better than the Q3 without extras. The Sony comes with a super light grip extension in the box which works great with the 20-70 and new 70-200f4.

7. The Q3 menus are better, just. But you have vast customisation of the A7CR buttons so you need the quick menus less than the Leica.

8. The EVF is MUCH better on the Q3. Same with the LCD. But even though the resolution is low the A7CR evf works because the optics are good and so is the magnification. It's a big improvement on the original A7C.

9. There are too many buttons on the Sony but at least most of them are programable. I don't find the Q3 buttons to be great but they're an improvement on the Q2, I suppose.

10. The Sony shutter is LOUD. Probably my least favorite thing about the whole system. A stealth camera it 'aint.

The Leica is the more tactile engaging experience overall, even though you can use lenses with aperture rings on the A7RC just fine. The Leica will maintain it's hipster driven popularity, like the X100 series and you'll need to wait to get one. But since Leica has ignored the requests for a compact interchangeable solution based around the Q body or even a few other fixed focal lengths, now another company has come in and taken that market. Now I have a 28/50/90 system that weighs less than an M (about the same as the CL actually) with STELLAR IQ and spectacular autofocus it is likely that Leica will lose some Q3 sales to those who didn't want to be stuck with a 26-28mm lens. Once again Leicas arrogance will cost them some sales that they were basically guaranteed if they listened to their audience. They could have made a CL2 or a QL but they didn't. Now Sony will take that buyer. And I fully expect that Sony, Sigma, Tamron and half a dozen others will jump on the opportunity to make a line of high quality small lenses for the system. If you build it, they will come..... 

I can already tell that the A7CII and A7CR will be a triumph for Sony. It'll likely replace my M11, SL2 and Q's for travel and as a backup to my larger systems. My M11M is really the only Leica camera I'm using regularly at the moment. K loves the Q3 (she can crop as she doesn't really print like I do) but I need a lot more than a fixed 28mm.

Gordon

Everything you said is spot on. Question when putting m lenses on my a7cr it doesn’t zoom in automatically and will not let me because says lens not compatible. I have an old adapter for m to amount and the colander adapter close focus. Both won’t work with zoom in focus. Do you know an adaptor that can auto zoom in for manual focus m mount lenses? Thanks! I am the same, the q3 and is more compact, sexier; etc but just found 38 mm too limiting. Amazing for travel though. 

Edited March 13 by Alex1976
Change word

[coleica]

On 10/24/2023 at 3:51 PM, Qwertynm said:

I was just browsing trough my LR library and compared some Canon R5 vs Leica Q3 shots and have to say... I prefer the Leica Colors out of camera (both raw files with standard color profile applied). Question to the Sony Users in here, who also have a Q3. Is the sensor in the A7CR or A7RV similar in color rendition to the Q3?

I own the Q3 and the A7RV.  I would say the Q3 does better color rendition our of the camera.  Also, the Q3 generates less noise at the higher ISO when compared to the Sony.  My $0.02 worth, ymmv.

[Qwertynm]

So, the SL3 would probably be closer to the Q3 in colors. But a downgrade in AF-accuracy… hmm

[JNK100]

On 9/3/2023 at 6:38 AM, idusidusi said:

A friend has suggested I look at the Sony in preference to the Q3. Anyone any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

The Sony's tiny and low-res. EVF rules it out immediately I am afraid.