New Q3 with defective sensor?

[bobtodrick]

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Reminds me of the notorious ‘black dot syndrome’ that plagued a just released Canon 5D about 13 years ago  https://cameracraft.online/2008/12/15/canon-5d-mkii-black-dot-problem/

Solved with a firmware update.

Like this Q3 issue it only showed up under shooting circumstances that would actually never occur in normal shooting conditions.

But hey…it wouldn’t be digital if we couldn’t take ridiculous images, chimp it 500% and look for faults 😂

[Celledral]

Just took some shots again and noticed that after being uploaded to this forum, it becomes less noticeable due to compression. I did a comparison with the SL2 and the texture and grain/noise is much smoother without any "specs". It's visible in Jpeg and DNG. I tested on mechanical and and electronic shutter with all settings off. Bob's images seems cleaner than mine, but could again be the compression.

If anyone wants to try it, It's most noticeable if you take a photo with the Lens cap on or lens fully covered. Settings at 1600-6400 iso/ SS 125/250 F/2-F/2.8. Punch in/zoom in 1:1 and see if you have the same star field of white "specs". 

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[LocalHero1953]

Yes, that looks fairly normal to me - for the  Q2 at least. 

[BobsFirstLeica]

16 minutes ago, Celledral said:

Just took some shots again and noticed that after being uploaded to this forum, it becomes less noticeable due to compression. I did a comparison with the SL2 and the texture and grain/noise is much smoother without any "specs". It's visible in Jpeg and DNG. I tested on mechanical and and electronic shutter with all settings off. Bob's images seems cleaner than mine, but could again be the compression.

The SL2 is a slightly different animal but the comparison image with the Q3 at ISO 3200 is of interest. I wanted to use a cam that  has the same 60MP sensor as well as a macro lens as close to 28mm as possible.  Pixel density, pitch, etc. them would be similar. That's why I was messing with the A7R5.

If you can, could you do additional tests that light the same area of the keys from different directions, possibly different kinds of shadows, etc.  The more I think about it,  the areas in question may be getting a slight more illumination that is causing what appears to be an issue.  I don't know, but it is worth testing.

Lastly under normal shooting situations I don't know if this is a dire issue.  But I do appreciate your bring it to everyone's attention, especially me.

Bob

[Celledral]

57 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Yes, that looks fairly normal to me - for the  Q2 at least. 

Dang. Well that’s disappointing…. Guess I won’t go above 3200 moving forward. Tons of cleaning in the shadows. 

[Asterox]

Just looked at some darker photos from Q2 and Q3.
I see this speckling under these conditions:
1. high iso and dark subject (ie 6400 and a dimly lit room - speckling in the dark areas but not near the light)
2. lifting shadows or blacks 1+ stops

Q2 exhibits less than Q3 but does display something similar under the same conditions. I feel like this is a characteristic of the sensor and is exaggerated due to high megapixel count. I saw something similar to this on Sony a7rIV and to a lesser degree a7rV (though perhaps they adjusted how noise is handled on the latter). Luminance noise reduction and reduction of "detail" sharpness (in Lightroom) helps.

In general, though, sensor performance at high iso hasn't been a problem or wildly atypical in my experience. Not ideal but I think this may be one of the particular compromises of this sensor.

 

[beewee]

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I’ve seen the same at ISO 3200 and up from M11, A7Riv, and A7Rv which all share the same sensor family. It’s inherent to this generation of Sony sensors.

[Miltz]

Let’s be responsible with our words before we label something defective just because we don’t know how it should perform. I hope that’s it and not a “defective” sensor. 

[Celledral]

Thanks everyone for chiming in. I did not come in here with any bad intentions. I have a collection of cameras and this is the first time I’ve seen these specks while punching in. I also have a A7RV with possibly the same 60MP sensor. Attached, you can see that the specks are not visible when punching in, though they may be visible in the raw file.it’s quite obvious on the Q3 with the same settings. 

 

 

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[LocalHero1953]

I see no reason to over-react to this evidence of noise. Noise reduction has been a part of my digital image processing for the last decade or more. What you show here is easily manageable with current noise reduction tools in post processing - at least to a state that you would not notice it in normal use and image display. Do your images depend on severe cropping in deep shadows at high ISO? 

You are showing the display on the camera for both Q3 and Sony. These will be JPGs, which may or may not have had NR (and other processing) applied automatically. How do similar shots look in raw with no NR?

Edited June 20, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[Asterox]

Even if various cameras share the same sensor, my understanding is they'll be tuned differently. And other factors like heat dissipation, etc. may be part of the equation as well.

I agree that viewing onscreen may not be that helpful either as then you also introduce the variable of the screen/display and whatever decisions are made there.

Double checked comparison against a sony a7rV. I see the same noise characteristics on RAW files under the same conditions (high iso and dimly lit, shadows lifted by 1 or more stops, viewed at 100%).

 

[SergeAD]

The same issue for me. 1 to 5 hot pixels on ISO 3200+ and 1/125 shutter speed.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, SergeAD said:

The same issue for me. 1 to 5 hot pixels on ISO 3200+ and 1/125 shutter speed.

Did you run Camera Settings > Pixel Mapping?

[georgechan]

Might not be the same issue but somewhat similar. I also found those "hot pixel" in the shadows in my photos when shooting above 2000 iso, and the "hot pixel" becomes big pile of white mud when pushing the shadow and lifting up the black. IMHO Q3's file are more difficult to edit and not as much room for adjustment when compares with my M10R. 

[SrMi]

Those hot pixels are normal if you did not run pixel mapping.

[georgechan]

On 8/10/2023 at 2:21 PM, SrMi said:

Those hot pixels are normal if you did not run pixel mapping.

What is pixel mapping and can you run pixel mapping on Lightroom?

[Stephen_C]

3 hours ago, georgechan said:

What is pixel mapping and can you run pixel mapping on Lightroom?

See page 239 of the downloadable Q3 manual. You run it in the camera.

Stephen

[paul chiu]

Just received my Q3 ordered May 30, so almost 6 months wait. Box says it was made Oct 18, 2023.  Version 1.30 was installed.

I ran pixel remap function before taking my first shots.  4K videos at near to pitch black were clean. (Big relief!)

Then took this at ISO3200,  full Auto otherwise.  This was the JPEG, the DNG was cleaner still. (no post)

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[adrianh]

How intelligent is pixel remapping? Does it make sense to run anyways? 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[RobW0]

6 minutes ago, adrianh said:

How intelligent is pixel remapping? Does it make sense to run anyways? 

I just read the cited page from the manual, and it says the camera will do it automatically every two weeks. Interesting, I wonder if it automatically does it at startup or shut down or when?