Best value 'M' lenses available today

[Martin B]

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On 6/13/2023 at 7:12 AM, Al Brown said:

The most undervalued M lens is the Summicron-C 40/2 period.

Prices for it skyrocketed in recent years - values easily doubled from formerly $400. IMO severely overpriced now. 

[Al Brown]

56 minutes ago, Martin B said:

Prices for it skyrocketed in recent years - values easily doubled from formerly $400. IMO severely overpriced now. 

I got it for $350 in 2021... one just has to look beyond eBay for it.

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[grahamc]

The minolta m-Rokkors (28-40-90 set from CLE) are front of my list.  
 

The 40:2 identical to 40:2 Summicron of course (updated coating changes though) + a commonly found 40.5mm filter ring.     The accompanying 90:4 is beautiful and can probably be found for sub $180 and is beautiful 

the 28:2.8 is hard to find without white spots but would be maybe $500. So for not much north of $1000 there’s a 3 lens set to rival the 70s/80s Leica lenses.  In fact my 40:2 out performs the v2 /  v3 and v4 35mm crons in tests although I do prefer to have the right frame lines.   
 

All very light also

Edited June 17, 2023 by grahamc

[grahamc]

If we are talking “relative bargains”, I’ve been over the moon with a recent 90:2 v3 purchase as Pippy also mentioned.  The lens gets over looked due to weight I think , but I find it very manageable in standard black.  The rendering is something else and I can see why I read someone refer to it as the “poor man’s 75 summilux”. Wide open it’s been my most endearing lens, I love it !

it also fell off a 1.5m high fireplace yesterday, landed with a very dull thud onto carpet and appears to be completely unscathed. So I was glad of the weight / build quality - the thing is a brick !

Edited June 17, 2023 by grahamc

[lct]

Problem is color fringing with the 90/2 v3. Otherwise it has almost the same size and weight as the 90/2 apo and is one of my favorites on portraits together with v2 whose only flaw is bulk, but what a lens...

[Martin B]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:26 PM, Al Brown said:

I got it for $350 in 2021... one just has to look beyond eBay for it.

Such deal for an EX copy of this lens I have seen before the pandemic. Commonly then the Minolta version went for approx. $100 less than the Leica version. Best I see now online for the Leica 40/2 is $625 not including fees (not on ebay-based market). 

[pgk]

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On 6/17/2023 at 9:08 AM, lct said:

Problem is color fringing with the 90/2 v3. Otherwise it has almost the same size and weight as the 90/2 apo and is one of my favorites on portraits together with v2 whose only flaw is bulk, but what a lens...

I had a couple but neither focussed accurately and were sent back to the dealers. Pity because I had one in film days which seemed fine, but the focus issues put me off trying to get one for digital.

[lct]

49 minutes ago, pgk said:

I had a couple but neither focussed accurately and were sent back to the dealers. Pity because I had one in film days which seemed fine, but the focus issues put me off trying to get one for digital.

I had mine calibrated for digital a dozen years ago together with 6-bit coding. Focused fine since then but i don't use it much anymore due to color fringing. 

[Al Brown]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:27 PM, Martin B said:

Good deals can still be found for the vintage Leitz 50/1.5 Summarit LTM lens between $500-600. This lens has an amazing bokeh even it is not super sharp in the center wide open. 

Summarit 1.5 is quite a bad lens wide open, only sharp in the center. When stopped down, this lens has absolutely zero character, zero pop and zero mojo going for it. It is not even a true Leica lens - it is a rebranded Schneider Xenon which was in turn a rebranded Taylor, Taylor & Hobson. The bokeh is swirly, nervous and overlapping, just like old Biotars. Most samples have cleaning marks due to the soft coating and the filter size is the dreaded 41mm. All this lens has going for it is a favorable used price tag and good build quality. I would not call it a good deal in general. It has a minor fan base, but that’s it. I have sold mine very quickly.

[costa43]

My best value used purchases have been the following, 

28mm Minolta f2.8 which i pcked up for around £250 - no white spots, I really enjoy the rendering on this one throughout its range. It’s sharp without being overly so.

90mm Minolta f4 which was a rather amazing €199 - faultless really for the price. Small and sharp enough. Rarely use a 90, so this is enough for me.

New purchases 

40mm Voigtlander f1.4 mc for £320 - I love  the portraits at f1.4, especially on the monochrom. Stopped down it’s less exciting for me.

50mm Voigtlander Apo for £620 (an amazing value for the technical performance this lens gives, albeit not a favourite of mine. I’ve considered selling it for as long as I can remember but for a reason unknown to me, I never end up listing it)

 

 

 

 

[pippy]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:48 AM, Al Brown said:

...Summarit 1.5 is quite a bad lens wide open, only sharp in the center. When stopped down, this lens has absolutely zero character, zero pop and zero mojo going for it...

On the other hand, Al, not all photographs rely solely on the taking-lens having 'character, pop and mojo' to make them interesting or worthwhile...

Philip (enthusiastic member of a Minor Fanbase)............

[sinjun]

28 minutes ago, pippy said:

On the other hand, Al, not all photographs rely solely on the taking-lens having 'character, pop and mojo' to make them interesting or worthwhile...

I agree with this. I like a lens which has 'character' wide open but which on stopping down becomes reliable and neutral. The Summarit f1.5 has plently of aberrations wide open (glowy, swirly) which can in the right circumstance provide interesting images, but at f2 and above I find it to be better in terms of sharpness and bokeh than my summicron V1 of which I have a good, clean copy.

[Al Brown]

31 minutes ago, pippy said:

On the other hand, Al, not all photographs rely solely on the taking-lens having 'character, pop and mojo' to make them interesting or worthwhile...

Philip (enthusiastic member of a Minor Fanbase)............

Of course, of course, but there's plenty of Sony, Nikon & Canon EF for characterless imagery. This one is more of a black sheep as it is not even a Leica developed lens, like an adopted godchild. I perfectly well understand that every single item in the Leicaverse has its fans, and justly so.

[pippy]

3 hours ago, sinjun said:

...I like a lens which has 'character' wide open but which on stopping down becomes reliable and neutral. The Summarit f1.5 has plently of aberrations wide open (glowy, swirly) which can in the right circumstance provide interesting images, but at f2 and above I find it to be better in terms of sharpness and bokeh than my summicron V1 of which I have a good, clean copy...

Interesting comments, sinjun.

As it happens I've just been thinking about what I wrote earlier and, following on from that train of thought, wondering what it is - specifically - about any particular lens which I find attractive. In brief I came to much the same conclusion as the passage quoted above. I love the bonkers nature of the Summarit at f1.5 but, equally, the 'transparency' (and sharpness) of its rendering when stopped-down.

I do like - and have bought - some lenses expressly because I found their wide-open rendering appealling (35 Summilux v2, 40mm f1.4 Voigtlander Nokton and the 50mm f1.5 Summarit to name just three) but in the main I wish my lenses to render in as neutral a fashion as possible. Probably 98% of my snaps are shot somewhere between f4 and f11 and I don't want the lens to 'add character' to my subject matter; rather I wish the part played by the lens in the capturing of an image to be 'invisible'.

Incidentally this probably explains why I like a number of lenses which many here in LeicaLand find 'too clinical' such as the 28mm Emarit ASPH and the recent Summarit range.

Philip.

[Huss]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:14 PM, Martin B said:

Such deal for an EX copy of this lens I have seen before the pandemic. Commonly then the Minolta version went for approx. $100 less than the Leica version. Best I see now online for the Leica 40/2 is $625 not including fees (not on ebay-based market). 

Yeah, I also have the Summicron 40 and while I too bought it when it was cheap, it’s no longer cheap no matter where you look.  At the current prices I would not recommend it.  I much prefer my Rollei Sonnar 40 2.8 which is more expensive but has much better coatings and a regular filter size.  And I also prefer my CV 40 2.8 which new is cheaper than the Summicron used, and again has much better coatings and frankly is new!  The regular CV 40 1.4 is very nice too on film - again cheaper new than a beat up used Summicron 40.

Don’t get me wrong, I like my Cron 40 but I only paid $300 for it.

[Chaemono]

The value of the 50 Summilux ASPH II lies in its subject separation and very smooth and controlled rendition of the background even when stopped down. These performance characteristics are not adequately reflected in its price IMO, particularly since it doesn’t lose them up to f/5.6 and just gets sharper across the frame as it’s stopped down a bit. It’s Achilles’ heel may be CA but I’ve only tried it in B&W so far. I have a feeling that this lens will increase more in price than on average the other M lenses. 

[pippy]

29 minutes ago, Huss said:

...I also have the Summicron 40 and while I too bought it when it was cheap, it’s no longer cheap no matter where you look......The regular CV 40 1.4 is very nice too on film......I like my Cron 40 but I only paid $300 for it.

Several years ago after I discovered (through using the Voigt. Nokton) how much I liked the 40mm f/length I had a look around the Summicrons which popped up from time to time in the UK. One highly respected dealer was advertising one in Exc+ condition for £400 / $500........and it came attached to a Leica CL in similar condition! In hindsight, of course............

Just a wee bit more about the Nokton if I may...

When I used mine with the M9-P it was dialled-in manually as a 35mm Summilux. This worked fine. Once I started using it on the M-D Typ-262, however, snaps shot wide-open had a very different look to what I had learned to expect. It took me a minute or so to realise that the change was becase the M-D - not having a screen - couldn't be told what in-camera lens-corrections to apply and the inherent vignetting was SO much more marked than I had previously encountered. As it happens for the stuff I shoot at f1.4 this turned out to be an unexpected advantage.

Philip.

[Huss]

It is kind of crazy how we are conditioned to Leica prices!  I see a Summicron 50 v5 for $1500, and think 'what a deal!'.

While I literally haggled $5 off a Pentax SMC 50 f2 so I could get it for $30.  And in photos I cannot tell the difference between the two..

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Huss:

It is kind of crazy how we are conditioned to Leica prices!  I see a Summicron 50 v5 for $1500, and think 'what a deal!'.

While I literally haggled $5 off a Pentax SMC 50 f2 so I could get it for $30.  And in photos I cannot tell the difference between the two..

It has a unique character that may appeal to some. Depending on the scene, OOF areas can look nervous https://www.flickr.com/photos/radiorocky/52076642549/in/pool-smcpentaxm50mmf2/lightbox/ but some may not not mind. Tons of CA at the border of extreme highlights and shadows in the blurry parts but many fast Leica M lenses show that, too, wide open.

The newer M lenses under Peter Karbe are as close to optical perfection in a small package as it can get, though. It’s fun to use a lens that was designed under someone who is obsessed with optical performance. It’s an emotional thing that gives one comfort that no matter how much one sucks as a photographer, at least it’s not due to the equipment one uses. 😂

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Olaf_ZG]

To me the sonnar 50 has most value. Really enjoy using it, and 25% of a lux…