SL2-S sensor vs Q3 sensor at higher ISO levels

[Guest]

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Thank you for the test, @mzbe. Once I have access to my M11 and SL2-S, I will run the measurements as well.

Can you confirm that you have used the same exposure in both tests (same shutter speed, same aperture, and same scene lighting)?

Yes. All my settings were identical.

Fundamentally comes down to laws of physics - the 60MP sensor has a pixel pitch of 3.76 mu m, the 24 MP is 5.94 mu m - both are BSI CMOS sensors, 'all else being equal' ...

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, mzbe said:

Yes. All my settings were identical.

Fundamentally comes down to laws of physics - the 60MP sensor has a pixel pitch of 3.76 mu m, the 24 MP is 5.94 mu m - both are BSI CMOS sensors, 'all else being equal' ...

Thanks!

The pixel pitch matters only when comparing at the pixel level, a comparison which has no practical meaning, IMO.

Both cameras have the same sensor surface, which matters more than pixel pitch when comparing at the same output size. 

Of course, elements other than sensor size and pixel pitch also influence the final output quality.

P.S.: According to DxO and P2P, M11 should have better DR below ISO 800.

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[Chaemono]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

Thanks!

The pixel pitch matters only when comparing at the pixel level, a comparison which has no practical meaning, IMO.

Both cameras have the same sensor surface, which matters more than pixel pitch when comparing at the same output size. 

Of course, elements other than sensor size and pixel pitch also influence the final output quality.

P.S.: According to DxO and P2P, M11 should have better DR below ISO 800.

Pixel pitch matters for pushed high ISO shadows noise, I find, all else equal (BSI sensors). ETTR with the higher MP camera because it may retain more highlight detail to counter the pushed high ISO shadows noise disadvantage is often too risky. 

[SrMi]

5 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Pixel pitch matters for pushed high ISO shadows noise, I find, all else equal (BSI sensors). ETTR with the higher MP camera because it may retain more highlight detail to counter the pushed high ISO shadows noise disadvantage is often too risky. 

Are you extrapolating from SL2-S or also including Nikon Z and Sony a7 in comparison?

AFAIK, SL2-s is above any other FF 24MP camera when pushing shadows at high ISO.

[Chaemono]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb SrMi:

Are you extrapolating from SL2-S or also including Nikon Z and Sony a7 in comparison?

AFAIK, SL2-s is above any other FF 24MP camera when pushing shadows at high ISO.

Nikon Z7 will show more high ISO pushed shadows noise than either SL2-S or S5 II with the same lens. All three have BSI sensors. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Nikon Z7 will show more high ISO pushed shadows noise than either SL2-S or S5 II with the same lens. All three have BSI sensors. 

Z6 is pretty close to SL2-S (similar difference as Z7 vs. SL2)

[tangosix]

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1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

Nikon Z7 will show more high ISO pushed shadows noise than either SL2-S or S5 II with the same lens. All three have BSI sensors. 

Perhaps your experience was different than mine.  I sold the z7 and z7ii for this very noisy reason.  hated it in low light. 

[helged]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:37 PM, Chaemono said:

Could they have meant same pixel size as in 3.76 μm but one being the MF IMX461 with 100 MP and the other the FF IMX455 with 61 MP?

Specifically made sensor for Leica, as far as I can tell. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, SrMi said:

Thanks!

The pixel pitch matters only when comparing at the pixel level, a comparison which has no practical meaning, IMO.

Both cameras have the same sensor surface, which matters more than pixel pitch when comparing at the same output size. 

Of course, elements other than sensor size and pixel pitch also influence the final output quality.

P.S.: According to DxO and P2P, M11 should have better DR below ISO 800.

M11 at ISO 64 has the best DR I have seen (... subjective impression, not measured) of all Leica full frame cameras (I have no experience with the S). It's a 'magical' setting that impresses me every time circumstances allow for it (e.g. sunny 16, tripod, ...).

Above ISO 500, I am starting to prefer the SL2-S (in a hypothetical blind test). At ISO 2500, M11 makes me grumpy.

[Chaemono]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb helged:

Specifically made sensor for Leica, as far as I can tell. 

That’s potentially very good news.