50mm Summicron v4 vs v5

[wizard]

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb Somchai:

Actually there’s no such thing as “v5”. In fact both lenses are v4 because the optics are exactly the same.

Technically you may be correct, but at least on this forum, members designate the version with the built-in hood as v5, whereas the preceding tabbed version of that lens is the v4. Most of the forum members understand the difference between v4 and v5, and it is just so much easier to use the v4 and v5 designations than always having to say "non-tabbed" or "with built-in hood", the more so since there are other non-tabbed Summicron 50 lenses, too.

Apart from the above, I seem to recall having read about some subtle optical changes between the v4 and the v5. Certainly not enough changes for Leica to change the version number, but some changes anyway. 

[B Royce]

As a Leica Society International member, I learned from Leica Wetzlar management that the Version 4 and 5 are optically the same.  Version 5 is a purely mechanical update.

The reason that the lens is still in production since 1979 is that this is a reference lens with an outstanding design.  Stopped down a bit it is hard to distinguish the 50 Summicron

performance from much more expensive lenses of any type.  Also very hard to beat its very small size and weight, which is what Leica is known for.  The current Leica MTF diagrams confirm this.

[lct]

58 minutes ago, B Royce said:

As a Leica Society International member, I learned from Leica Wetzlar management that the Version 4 and 5 are optically the same.  Version 5 is a purely mechanical update.

Would be interesting to ask Leica management what they mean by "optically the same". Are they including coatings in that statement? As shown above, internal reflections of early Canada-made v4 with convex("tiger paw") focus tab  have not the same colour as later German-made copies with concave focus tab.

[TomB_tx]

I find even my 1969 ver 3 Summicron compares well with my ver 5, losing just a bit wide open.

[lct]

My v3 had more flare if i remember well. Was half a century ago though so my ageing memory may fail me.

[TomB_tx]

4 hours ago, lct said:

My v3 had more flare if i remember well. Was half a century ago though so my ageing memory may fail me.

Central veiling flare can be an issue - you learn to avoid the conditions that cause it. But even ver 5 can have that issue too.

[BernardC]

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19 hours ago, lct said:

Would be interesting to ask Leica management what they mean by "optically the same". Are they including coatings in that statement? As shown above, internal reflections of early Canada-made v4 with convex("tiger paw") focus tab  have not the same colour as later German-made copies with concave focus tab.

Not directly related, but I remember a Zeiss employee explaining that every Hasselblad lens was redesigned in the 1990s, even the ones that didn't get a new product code. The main change was due to fazing-out lead glass, but they also improved coatings and flare/reflection control.

[RexGig0]

I will confess an irrational desire for a “Tiger Paw/Claw” Summicron. A local camera store having one available is not helpful, in my coping with my 50mm addiction. I do not normally favor focusing tabs, but, the unusual convex profile of the “Paw/Claw” catches my eye, and, the different lens element coatings just might provide a different type of vintage look, in some images, if captured in some lighting conditions, with a color sensor.

Must resist… 

[lct]

17 minutes ago, RexGig0 said:

I will confess an irrational desire for a “Tiger Paw/Claw” Summicron. A local camera store having one available is not helpful, in my coping with my 50mm addiction. I do not normally favor focusing tabs, but, the unusual convex profile of the “Paw/Claw” catches my eye, and, the different lens element coatings just might provide a different type of vintage look, in some images, if captured in some lighting conditions, with a color sensor.

It just causes a bit more flare in my experience. Otherwise it renders the same as later v4's and focus tabs are a matter of taste. With the convex one i feel like i must use my medium finger to focus, which i don't like much.

Edited February 15, 2024 by lct

[RexGig0]

57 minutes ago, lct said:

It just causes a bit more flare in my experience. Otherwise it renders the same as later v4's and focus tabs are a matter of taste. With the convex one i feel like i must use my medium finger to focus, which i don't like much.

Thanks. You are helping me to resist. 🙂

[lct]

Some (all?) early v4's have also plastic parts AFAIK, which i did not know when i bought mine in the eighties. Made no difference to me in 30+ years TBH but i feel more reassured with my later German made copy with concave focus tab. It has the same IQ as my v5 though so its main interest together with the concave tab is a slightly more compact size and a separate hood (metal 12585 or plastic 12538).

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[kivis]

The Ver 5 is my dream come true lens. Love it.

[Danner]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:17 AM, mediumformula said:

I have a German made v4.  I chose version 4  when looking for a modern 50 Summicron because it is the smaller and lighter version of the two and it has a focus tab.  The only advantage I see in v5 is that it has a built-in lens hood.  I highly value compactness and light-weight when choosing rangefinder lenses.

Agree with this.  But, since the v5 hood does not lock in the extended position, and tends to get pushed back in during use, I sold mine and bought the v4, with the snap-on hood.

[JoshuaR]

Right now I divide my 50mm time between a Lux ASPH and f/2.5 Summarit. But I’m thinking of selling both and returning to the Cron v5 or trying out a Cron v4.

There’s a lot that I like about the Summilux, but the truth is that I miss a lot of shots at f/1.4—especially shots of my kids, who are rarely still. I do better at f/2. And I like the character of the Summicron at f/2 more than I like the Summarit at f/2.5. And owning only a Cron would eliminate a decision process. 

My biggest question: I really like the focus tab and throw on the Summarit. It’s very short and the lens is incredibly fast to focus. Is the focus throw on the v4 short or long?

[lct]

1 hour ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Is the focus throw on the v4 short or long?

My Summicron 50/2 v4's focus throw is rather short (pic), similar to the Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1's and  a bit shorter than the Summicron 50/2 v5's.

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Edited April 20, 2024 by lct

[sarav]

15 hours ago, Danner said:

Agree with this.  But, since the v5 hood does not lock in the extended position, and tends to get pushed back in during use, I sold mine and bought the v4, with the snap-on hood.

...and it's smaller, and it looks even smaller than it is

[hansvons]

6 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

But I’m thinking of selling both and returning to the Cron v5 or trying out a Cron v4.

Wise decision. I have the v4 Canada version and it is as tiny as a non-collapsible 50mm can possibly get at f2. I use it for portraits here and there but as I’m a 35mm guy, it’s not my workhorse. That's the Summicron ASPH. But the V4 fifty is in fact the ideal 50mm workhorse if you are a fifty guy for good reasons, one is the rendering and sharpness at full aperture, and the other is the tab and focus throw. Can't get better. 

[Chris Nebard]

There is something that’s just so compelling about this lens. Whether you prefer the v4 or the v5, the design and the output is essentially the same. Yes, one has the tab, one hasn’t, one has the built in hood, coatings may or may not be slightly different. These are details which, I feel, probably haven’t changed what was intended in 1979. There’s no need; it’s that good. Mine happens to be the newer version but I’m sure it doesn’t matter - the organic quality of the Mandler design comes through if I get the light right. I have a range of lenses for my SL2-S (and the 28mm Summilux on the Q is also fantastic) but the 50mm M-Summicron is my favourite lens of all time.  It’s sharp and soft in all the right places. Beautiful. I’ve said this before on other threads, so forgive me repeating myself, but if you own a 50mm M-Summicron, you have an all time great lens. 

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[Kickstand]

After doing lots of research and reading through this thread, I purchased my 50mm Summicron V4 one year ago. I have almost exclusively used this lens since then and it has made me fall in love with the rangefinder experience, being perfectly balanced on my M10. For most of that time I have used it without any hood so please don't let the flair complaints or the V5's built in hood put you off this stellar lens. The only problem with mine is, the focusing is rather stiff as it is in bad need of a service. I really don't want to be without it over the summer though so am trying to put it off for another few months.

I will attach a few recent photo's taking with it below, I also have a blog post about my first six months with the lens which you can read here: Six months with the Summicron

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[BernardC]

11 minutes ago, Kickstand said:

The only problem with mine is, the focusing is rather stiff as it is in bad need of a service. I really don't want to be without it over the summer though so am trying to put it off for another few months.

A simple service on a relatively simple lens shouldn't take all summer. Ask your Leica importer, they might do this kind of thing without sending the lens back to Germany (Leica US does). They may offer a service to add 6-bit coding to your lens, which includes a CLA, for a reasonable fee.

Any half-decent camera repair shop should know how to clean and lubricate the helical.