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50mm Summicron v4 vs v5


SNJ Ops

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vor 1 Minute schrieb hansvons:

I’ve never understood why Leica build the V5 without the tab. 

I for one don't like tabs on lenses. Much prefer the v5, but obviously that's a matter of subjective personal preferences. Optically, both v4 and v5 are stellar performers.

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1 hour ago, hansvons said:

None. At least that’s what all available sources say. I’ve never understood why Leica build the V5 without the tab. 

Thanks, the v4 itself seems to have both tabbed and non tabbed versions looking online. Perhaps Leica will make a tabbed version of the v5 at some point.

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I have acquired the v5 recently. Certainly it handles well even without the tab. It has the built in hood too which I like. And digital era ones are 6 bit coded. I have read that later V5s have updated coatings.

However if you want the tab I think v4 would be the way to go. 

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2 hours ago, SNJ Ops said:

Thanks, the v4 itself seems to have both tabbed and non tabbed versions looking online. Perhaps Leica will make a tabbed version of the v5 at some point.

I like the tab. It is not needed as mentioned before, but it helps with muscle memory to know where your focus is without even looking. There are several versions of tabs on the v4. I have a convex one, and Leica tabs are often concave. Love this lens. If it would have a built in hood it was perfect. But now, without the hood it is even more compact than the v5. IMO that is a big advantage. In Belgian weather sun hoods are highly overrated 🙂

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5 hours ago, SNJ Ops said:

[...] In terms of optics how much difference is there between the v4 and v5 [...]

Depends on v4 copies as far as my lenses are concerned. Early ones, at least my Canada-made copy with "tiger paw" focus tab, have not the same coating and produce a bit more flare. Later ones, at least my German-made copy with normal focus tab, look identical to v5 optically. Early v4 (11819) and current v5 (11826) at f/2.8 below.

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I have a German made v4.  I chose version 4  when looking for a modern 50 Summicron because it is the smaller and lighter version of the two and it has a focus tab.  The only advantage I see in v5 is that it has a built-in lens hood.  I highly value compactness and light-weight when choosing rangefinder lenses.

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3 hours ago, lct said:

Depends on v4 copies as far as my lenses are concerned. Early ones, at least my Canada-made copy with "tiger paw" focus tab, have not the same coating and produce a bit more flare. Later ones, at least my German-made copy with normal focus tab, look identical to v5 optically. Early v4 (11819) and current v5 (11826) at f/2.8 below.

I wonder if the first one is just a product of age and a small amount of haze that is difficult to detect on inspection? I have an early V4 (first year) that produces images more like your V5 pictured after it was sent in for CLA. Before the CLA it looked more like the first photo.

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I replaced my v.4 and v.5 Summicrons long ago with the 50 Summilux ASPH, and haven’t looked back.  Less flare tendency, focus tab, excellent results at all apertures, and compact enough for me, especially considering f/1.4 option. One might even find some used bargains, given the recently introduced v.2.

Jeff

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22 minutes ago, 84bravo said:

I wonder if the first one is just a product of age and a small amount of haze that is difficult to detect on inspection? I have an early V4 (first year) that produces images more like your V5 pictured after it was sent in for CLA. Before the CLA it looked more like the first photo.

Coatings are different though. Look at the reflections. Above early v4, below current v5.

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In the last year, I owned all three (V3, 4, 5) at the same time.  They are all excellent for shooting film, no question about that..  I sold the V3 and V5, keeping the V4.  I like it diminutive appearance, snap-on hood, and focusing tab.  Plus, it looks very cool on an M6.

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11 hours ago, lct said:

Coatings are different though. Look at the reflections. Above early v4, below current v5.

The coatings on the v5 are great. The v5 has very cinematic and unique lens flare shapes without much loss of contrast due to veiling flare most of the time. It's even nicer for video on the SL2-S where the flare shapes can be in motion and changing form as the camera is panning. The flare from the v5 looks very much like the flare from the Minolta 58 f/1.2 (MC/MD/Rokkor).

M10-P Reporter -|- 50 Cron v5 -|- f/2

Edited by hdmesa
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I’ve been meaning to do a couple of tests to see if my v5 is a bit colder rendering than my v4.  I thought I noticed that when I shot the v5. But could be all in the mind after I noticed the very obvious coating difference when my v5 (purple) arrived versus my German v4 (golden brown)

the warm earthy tones my v4 produces are one of its biggest strengths I think, so I hope they produce the same colour rendering .  The v5 I own is the 50 jahre special edition from 2004, which I bought for its ergonomics and to mount on a silver body.   

 

Edited by grahamc
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20 hours ago, lct said:

Depends on v4 copies as far as my lenses are concerned. Early ones, at least my Canada-made copy with "tiger paw" focus tab, have not the same coating and produce a bit more flare. Later ones, at least my German-made copy with normal focus tab, look identical to v5 optically. Early v4 (11819) and current v5 (11826) at f/2.8 below.

Very useful to know thank you.

 

I’m watching a v4 on ebay. Checked the serial number and it was actually produced the same year I was born, seems like fate ☺️. Does anyone know of any other safer potential sources to buy old Leica glass?

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1 hour ago, SNJ Ops said:

Very useful to know thank you.

 

I’m watching a v4 on ebay. Checked the serial number and it was actually produced the same year I was born, seems like fate ☺️. Does anyone know of any other safer potential sources to buy old Leica glass?

Good choice. ePray can be a bit of a lottery but also I’ve bought great lenses there. Safest to check the sellers feedback and also if it happens to come from one of the the Japanese retailers some of them have tens of thousands of sales and 100% feedback rating - that’s impressive no matter what many people say about the site. I’ve bought plenty of lens on there and had very few problems. Also maybe ask the seller a few simple questions just to get a temperature check of their customer service, their care-factor and general demeanour. After that I just go with my gut.  Unfortunately unless buying these lenses from a dealer you may need to factor in the cost of a CLA as a worst case scenario.  
 

Alternatively try Fred Miranda forum which has enthusiasts selling gear at reasonable prices versus EB** or authorised dealers. And you can also place “wanted” ads there.  But I wouldn’t hesitate buying on Eb** if everything is stacking up.  Be aware that the sellers prices can be inflated though because they need to account for the expensive fees involved in selling there 

Edited by grahamc
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On 4/21/2023 at 7:27 AM, wizard said:

I for one don't like tabs on lenses. Much prefer the v5, but obviously that's a matter of subjective personal preferences. Optically, both v4 and v5 are stellar performers.

Fully agree. I understand those who prefer the tabbed version, including for muscle-memory, but I get more control of the focus ring without it - it’s totally subjective & down to personal preference. The Summicron 50mm, generally, is legendary; it’s historically important to Leica photography, and it’s beautiful to use.
 

I’m not as well versed in this as other forum members but the classic look of the pictures (Mandler design magic? 🤷🏼‍♂️) is definitely a thing. Hansvons often makes knowledgable lens observations (due to his video/cinematic background I think?). Anyway, these days I use mine adapted to an SL2-s. Whatever version the OP chooses I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. If you own a Summicron 50, you own one of the world’s great lenses. 

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Edited by Chris Nebard
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41 minutes ago, Chris Nebard said:

Fully agree. I understand those who prefer the tabbed version, including for muscle-memory, but I get more control of the focus ring without it - it’s totally subjective & down to personal preference. The Summicron 50mm, generally, is legendary; it’s historically important to Leica photography, and it’s beautiful to use.
 

I’m not as well versed in this as other forum members but the classic look of the pictures (Mandler design magic? 🤷🏼‍♂️) is definitely a thing. Hansvons often makes knowledgable lens observations (due to his video/cinematic background I think?). Anyway, these days I use mine adapted to an SL2-s. Whatever version the OP chooses I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. If you own a Summicron 50, you own one of the world’s great lenses. 

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Nice pictures. I can agree that without the tab, precise  and delicate focusing is more obvious. The tab is most useful when pressed for time.

IMHO:

Any Leica user M or SL should have a Summicron 50, regardless of type... The M v4 and v5 are the most representative for what the name Summicron brings to the table, even if there are some like the SL series and APO version that seems to be a bit more modern in rendering.

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I have a Midland v4 and had a v5, but not simultaneously.  For me, the differences are a matter of preference.  I like using a tab and did not like the way the v5 hood does not lock in place.  When I look at past photos when using different versions I don't see meaningful differences. 

The v4 is usually a few hundred $s cheaper than a v5.  But if I had a choice between the two and they were the same price I'd go with the v4.  

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