15% price hike regarding M-P and M-A cameras Mars/April 2023

[Leica Filmmatic]

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On 4/28/2023 at 5:53 PM, Huss said:

Can you name any other camera mfg that does the same?

Different type of camera but ARRI raises prices every year.

[kivis]

You can thank all these Western Governments for inflating their currency. 

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[Mr.Prime]

I'm now getting regular emails from Leica telling me that they have stock of the M6. Well, no surprises there. Who in their right mind would pay just under UK5k for a re-issue of a camera that you can buy already run-in for substantially less on eBay (and eBay ain't so cheap anymore either). If they'd had stock last year, before they put their prices up, I was tempted. Now, looking at my M3, M4, Leica iii, Rolleiflex and Minolta X500 - I'd rather spend my money with Ilford.

As for today's Leica. Please keep pushing up the prices, more and more. It keeps the used value of my lenses and bodies high.  😆🙂

Edited May 24, 2023 by Mr.Prime

[Huss]

55 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

I'm now getting regular emails from Leica telling me that they have stock of the M6. Well, no surprises there. Who in their right mind would pay just under UK5k for a re-issue of a camera that you can buy already run-in for substantially less on eBay (and eBay ain't so cheap anymore either). If they'd had stock last year, before they put their prices up, I was tempted. Now, looking at my M3, M4, Leica iii, Rolleiflex and Minolta X500 - I'd rather spend my money with Ilford.

As for today's Leica. Please keep pushing up the prices, more and more. It keeps the used value of my lenses and bodies high.  😆🙂

Right now it is the total lack of quality control that would prevent me from recommending a new M6.  Get an old one at half the cost that has no issues.

[CSG123]

Is Leica's QC really that bad currently?  In the binocular world (at least over on GB's Bird Forum, Leica seems (anecdotally speaking here) to have a fair number of QC issues with their very high priced bins.  To be fair, people will complain about Swarovski and Zeiss as well but I read more quality issues with Leica these days.

I'm not interested in the new film cameras.  I bought my clean but used first batch M4 online from Samy's in 2010 for an adjusted price of $600.  Used it without any issue for the past 12 1/2 years until the glued shutter curtain separated while shooting.  Called DAG and in spite of his high CLA cost and return shipping, the $670 I paid for the two services - shutter curtain replacement (second screen) and incredibly good CLA along with some cosmetic work to the body,  I had the camera back in less than three weeks from when I sent it.  Like a new camera, truly wonderful.  So I'm into the camera $1270 based on the 2010 purchase price.  Today, one might spend $1500 for a clean M$ that's not some limited color or special edition.  If it needs a CLA and/or repair, depending on who you send it to, the internals should come back to a very high level of operation.  Yye would have charged me less but was four months out.  I could have paid a surcharge for bumping the line but Don simply asked me when I needed it back.  I said end of May but got it back two weeks ago.  He received the camera the last week of April so three weeks total time including shipping both ways.

I'd love to justify buying new Leica cameras and lenses (I use a Sherry CLA'd 1957 5cm DR Summicron/goggles which I recall was about $500 back in 2010 and a Voigtlander 35mm Color-Skopar which I also bought used from CameraQuest recently for $300) so while I'd love an M10R or M11, it doesn't take many reported issues to turn me away from getting in that $deep$ with Leica as I'm strictly a hobbyist photography without an instagram account.🙂

Bottom line of my rambling is that earlier M film models are available metered or meterless (a non-issue for me as I only shoot B&W negative film in my Leica and have a pocket light meter for when I'm unsure of exposure using Sunny 16)) at half the cost or less of the new cameras. If they're clean and maybe need a CLA, Don or Youxin are capable of putting them back to new condition and you're shooting with photo camera history.  Why chase after new Leicas?  Almost no one can spare $7-9000k without using a credit card or financing a camera.  If that's not the reader, good for you but Leica seems to be seeking out the 1% of photographers with it's rapidly rising prices not most people.  Good thing the made a LOT of cameras over the years that allow so many of us to buy used and enjoy Leicas from their past where they are now affordable.  All just my opinion.  But I sure as hell would not buy a NEW film camera from Leica with all the other options out there.

Edited May 24, 2023 by CSGreene

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

I'm now getting regular emails from Leica telling me that they have stock of the M6. Well, no surprises there. Who in their right mind would pay just under UK5k for a re-issue of a camera that you can buy already run-in for substantially less on eBay (and eBay ain't so cheap anymore either). If they'd had stock last year, before they put their prices up, I was tempted. Now, looking at my M3, M4, Leica iii, Rolleiflex and Minolta X500 - I'd rather spend my money with Ilford.

As for today's Leica. Please keep pushing up the prices, more and more. It keeps the used value of my lenses and bodies high.  😆🙂

3 year "I drop it, they fix it" warranty, MP finder without flare, brass instead of zinc top/bottom plates, hasn't been fucked over from an incompetent CLA, meter that can be replaced if it goes tits up... what else?

6 hours ago, Huss said:

Right now it is the total lack of quality control that would prevent me from recommending a new M6.  Get an old one at half the cost that has no issues.

The QC on the M6 seems to have improved. No scratchy, no wacky ISO dial. I think my warranty card was signed in blood with shaky handwriting, so whatever you said to them seems to have worked.

[Huss]

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5 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

..

The QC on the M6 seems to have improved. No scratchy, no wacky ISO dial. I think my warranty card was signed in blood with shaky handwriting, so whatever you said to them seems to have worked.

😂

[Mr.Prime]

Boy oh boy, hdmesa, that’s one heck of a premium for a 3 year warranty. Although, it seems that the new cameras need a warranty more than the old ones.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Mr.Prime

[hdmesa]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:38 PM, Mr.Prime said:

…it seems that the new cameras need a warranty more than the old ones.

Mine is flawless.

On 5/24/2023 at 9:38 PM, Mr.Prime said:

Boy oh boy, hdmesa, that’s one heck of a premium for a 3 year warranty.

Cherry-picking from my reply I see.

I could just as easily argue buying a used M6 is the poor choice now that you can buy a new, unmolested copy for not much more. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by hdmesa

[hdmesa]

I would also point out that in the U.S., the new M6 isn’t that much more than a used, CLAed M6 with the MP finder upgrade. Leica Miami had three or four recently they were selling for more than the new M6.

[LocalHero1953]

I'm beginning to sound like an endless loop with my posts on the subject but, for the record, I bought a new MP in January, and it has no problems - it just works. I have nothing against older cameras: I have a M4 as well - it just works.

[Mr.Prime]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Mine is flawless.

Cherry-picking from my reply I see.

I could just as easily argue buying a used M6 is the poor choice now that you can buy a new, unmolested copy for not much more. 

Sorry, there was no intention to misrepresent your comments by limiting the text that I quoted from you. My beef is not with you at all and I feel bad for appearing to try and diminish your enjoyment of a fine new camera. My beef is with Leica-UK (and the many other companies out there that have been doing the same thing) in being unable to supply product when it was wanted and then raising prices when supply problems were solved. It does resemble the old bait-and-switch, creating demand with pricing that was not attainable by everyone who wanted to buy, then sticking it to those people with a price increase when supply improved. I don't think a warranty is good justification for the price differential.

[hdmesa]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said:

Sorry, there was no intention to misrepresent your comments by limiting the text that I quoted from you. My beef is not with you at all and I feel bad for appearing to try and diminish your enjoyment of a fine new camera. My beef is with Leica-UK (and the many other companies out there that have been doing the same thing) in being unable to supply product when it was wanted and then raising prices when supply problems were solved. It does resemble the old bait-and-switch, creating demand with pricing that was not attainable by everyone who wanted to buy, then sticking it to those people with a price increase when supply improved. I don't think a warranty is good justification for the price differential.

Thanks, that was kind of you to say. I wonder if the price changes are for some other reason, though. I would think if Leica were trying to catch up on production by raising the price, they would raise the price globally. I'm not sure what percentage of their sales come from the U.S., but the U.S. seems like a soft target if Leica really wanted to do what you're suggesting.

As a consumer, it's always frustrating to see price increases on cameras that are difficult to get. But I've said before that I always thought the film M cameras were underpriced given how few of them they can produce versus the demand for them.

[LocalHero1953]

FWIW, the price increases look pretty much in line with inflation. Justifiable or not, it isn't a surprise.

[Huss]

6 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

Sorry, there was no intention to misrepresent your comments by limiting the text that I quoted from you. My beef is not with you at all and I feel bad for appearing to try and diminish your enjoyment of a fine new camera. My beef is with Leica-UK (and the many other companies out there that have been doing the same thing) in being unable to supply product when it was wanted and then raising prices when supply problems were solved. It does resemble the old bait-and-switch, creating demand with pricing that was not attainable by everyone who wanted to buy, then sticking it to those people with a price increase when supply improved. I don't think a warranty is good justification for the price differential.

Lots of companies do that.  B&H is out of stock of Fuji 200.  You could place your order, but will be charged when it ships.  It went from $27 3/36 to then $30 and now it shows $36.  All the while w/o them having it in stock.

[Borna]

12 minutes ago, Huss said:

Lots of companies do that.  B&H is out of stock of Fuji 200.  You could place your order, but will be charged when it ships.  It went from $27 3/36 to then $30 and now it shows $36.  All the while w/o them having it in stock.

Saw a video yesterday saying it was in stock in US. However, it is hell expensive in North of Europe, one is almost 20 bucks.

[Huss]

2 hours ago, Borna said:

Saw a video yesterday saying it was in stock in US. However, it is hell expensive in North of Europe, one is almost 20 bucks.

Last week in the US i paid $15 for 3 rolls 36 Fuji 200.  I bought 60 rolls.

film sale this w/e - not as good a price as mine - now sold out - but better than pretty much anywhere else.

https://reformedfilmlab.com/products/fujifilm-fujicolor-200-35mm-36-exposure-3-pack

[CSG123]

I gave up shooting color film years ago, after Costco stopped selling and developing film.  All my color work is on digital cameras now and my M4 and OM-1's are B&W film only.  It still relatively inexpensive or priced similarly to inflation adjusted film costs from the 70's/80's.  I can develop, scan, and print it at home for very little additional cost (other than the irreplaceable time) or use the local university darkroom if I ever get crazy enough to want to make traditional prints again!  Color film, currently, is out of whack to any norms IMO.  My thoughts are from being an enthusiast rather than professional.  Ever increasing prices is something pros often have to deal with.  We amateurs don't have to upgrade very often (and based on so many awful photos published online everyday, maybe we should take more time to learn how to take better photos with the camera/s we already own).  A new film Leica will not outperform my M4 so I would never dream of buying a new Leica, film or digital, so their constant price increases continues to reduce their market share every year. Or has their market share grown with $9000 digital and $5500-6000 film cameras?

[Huss]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:50 PM, CSGreene said:

… A new film Leica will not outperform my M4 so I would never dream of buying a new Leica, film or digital, so their constant price increases continues to reduce their market share every year. Or has their market share grown with $9000 digital and $5500-6000 film cameras?

No-one else makes a high quality 35mm film camera so their market share has been 100%.  And has been since Nikon stopped making the F6.  And will continue to be so.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Fotoklaus]

Leica has turned to a luxury brand and is increasing their sales.

The more expensive the better.

A lot of people buying because of the brand.

I don't know if Nikon could sell a new F2 and take double the money...