Peter Karbe's lens and camera of choice in 2023

[fil-m]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

In 40 years his lenses will be seen as "optically inferior" and everyone will rush to buy them for their "soul and character" compared to 2070's clinical lenses  

Assuming photography as we know it, remains  

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[aesop]

On 4/23/2023 at 9:24 PM, otto.f said:

I don't see why he would not be honest about this. Every choice he would have made could have been set aside as commercial. There are a lot of renovated M lenses at the moment, e.g. the Summiluxes 50 and 35, and new SL lenses too. If he just wanted it sharpsharpsharp he would have chosen an SL lens. And the big campaign at the moment is M11M with the new Summilux50, which he did not choose.

 

    ...probably because the new 50mm Summilux ASPH (11728) offers nothing extra over the previous 50mm Summilux ASPH (11891), unless you are into close-up focusing.

Remarkably, the MTF graphs for both lenses look like a cut-and-paste job. It is also worth remembering that the 11891 was a film-era design from 2002, and even though design has clearly moved on since then, the 11728 from 2023 shows little evidence of any optical improvement.

Personally, I have never considered close-up focusing ability to be one of the key strengths of the M system (for obvious reasons). Karbe is an top engineer but, technical achievements notwithstanding, I would not agonise over his personal preferences that involve an artistic element. To me, it makes total sense for Karbe the engineer to choose a more modern, über-sharp, gee-whizz 'digital' lens.

For what it is worth, I actually prefer the rendering of my Mandler pre-ASPH 50 Summilux (11114) to that of my clinical Karbe 11891, especially at full bore. But I guess that is irrelevant as I am not Head of Optics at Leica. Right?🙄

    

[John Smith]

4 hours ago, aesop said:

 

    ...probably because the new 50mm Summilux ASPH (11728) offers nothing extra over the previous 50mm Summilux ASPH (11891), unless you are into close-up focusing.

Remarkably, the MTF graphs for both lenses look like a cut-and-paste job. It is also worth remembering that the 11891 was a film-era design from 2002, and even though design has clearly moved on since then, the 11728 from 2023 shows little evidence of any optical improvement.

Personally, I have never considered close-up focusing ability to be one of the key strengths of the M system (for obvious reasons). Karbe is an top engineer but, technical achievements notwithstanding, I would not agonise over his personal preferences that involve an artistic element. To me, it makes total sense for Karbe the engineer to choose a more modern, über-sharp, gee-whizz 'digital' lens.

For what it is worth, I actually prefer the rendering of my Mandler pre-ASPH 50 Summilux (11114) to that of my clinical Karbe 11891, especially at full bore. But I guess that is irrelevant as I am not Head of Optics at Leica. Right?🙄

    

I am considering trading in my Summilux for the new CF version. But I use an SL2, and it might make more sense to buy the new Summicron-SL 50 instead of the Summilux. Decisions. Decisions. 

[otto.f]

17 hours ago, aesop said:

über-sharp

As far as I know now after studying its behavior in Sean Reid’s tests, and owning it now for 10 days, I find the APO35 the first Karbe lens which is not over the top, has natural sharpness and a classic bo-keh, comparable with the Summaron 35 M and the Summicron 35 R. I can’t wait to see how it draws with Delta 100.
I sold my Summilux 50 asph i in 2008 because I’m not very much into 50mm and given that I found it too big. Summicrons and 39mm lenses are the first choice for M’s, so the Elmar-M 50 is my little lensy. Hard to imagine I would sell it. 

[Jon Warwick]

On 4/29/2023 at 7:32 AM, otto.f said:

As far as I know now after studying its behavior in Sean Reid’s tests, and owning it now for 10 days, I find the APO35 the first Karbe lens which is not over the top, has natural sharpness and a classic bo-keh

Sounds rather like my sort of lens! "Natural sharpness" is something I'm always looking for. I know a lot of people love the SL Summicron primes, but i thought the SL 50mm Summicron on the SL2 wasn't always to my taste, especially for some portraits where i couldn't get it gentle enough.  

[otto.f]

6 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

Sounds rather like my sort of lens! "Natural sharpness" is something I'm always looking for. I know a lot of people love the SL Summicron primes, but i thought the SL 50mm Summicron on the SL2 wasn't always to my taste, especially for some portraits where i couldn't get it gentle enough.  

Plus the image stabilization on the SL2 which makes the digital world complete and people won’t believe anymore that it’s a living creature

[stephen.w]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

 

Andreas Kaufmann's favourite M lens is a Canadian Summicron (v2? v3?), seen here on his M11:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkCPbkByS-p/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[trickness]

3 hours ago, otto.f said:

Plus the image stabilization on the SL2 which makes the digital world complete and people won’t believe anymore that it’s a living creature

Lol this might be the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read on here, and that’s saying something 

[trickness]

4 minutes ago, otto.f said:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

This is a great portrait. But it is no more a document of a "living person" for having been shot on an M rather than an SL or any other camera. No IBIS has literally zero to do with the success of this image.

Edited May 2, 2023 by trickness

[chris7273]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:51 PM, Danner said:

Apparently, Mr. Karbe values technical perfection over artistic rendering.

for artistic rendering : no need for a Leica. A Lomo is sufficient.... if still too sharp, just add a smear of vasoline (... on the lens of course 🙂 )

[pippy]

On 4/30/2023 at 10:57 AM, stephen.w said:

Andreas Kaufmann's favourite M lens is a Canadian Summicron (v2? v3?), seen here on his M11...

Appears to be a 1977 v2 35mm Summicron. Interesting choice!

Philip.

[trisberg]

15 hours ago, pippy said:

Appears to be a 1977 v2 35mm Summicron. Interesting choice!

Philip.

I think that they were making the v3 by then, the v2 is older and looks a bit different from the front. Some pics here.

-Thomas

[pippy]

7 hours ago, trisberg said:

I think that they were making the v3 by then, the v2 is older and looks a bit different from the front. Some pics here.

-Thomas

Thank you for the correction, Thomas, and of course you are quite correct. Mea Culpa. I knew what I meant to type but clearly had a brain-fart moment...

Philip.

[jakontil]

On 4/30/2023 at 4:57 PM, stephen.w said:

 

Andreas Kaufmann's favourite M lens is a Canadian Summicron (v2? v3?), seen here on his M11:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CkCPbkByS-p/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Dr. Kaufmann didnt seem to favor the classic strap that came with m11

[Chris_Jenks]

On 3/19/2023 at 5:24 PM, cheeseyk said:

I would be interested in an English translation of the article just to see what other nuggets are in there.

He's probably right about the APO Summicron though.

If you’re an Apple / Safari user go to the top left of your screen and tap on the “aA” and voila “Translate Website” appears. There may be something similar in Chrome, but I haven’t checked. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Perkin]

On 3/20/2023 at 2:31 AM, BradS said:

Just more slick marketing.  Of course, he's gonna say some highly profitable current product. He obviously cannot say, "The M4 because it was the last real Leica". 

Always a debatable subject.  IMHO the M5 was the last "real" Leica even though my M of choice is the M2 with only three frame-lines.  I have all three cameras and when new used the M4 until the introduction of the M5 when the M4 became the back-up camera.  I thought Karbe's remark about one's favourite child to be on point.

[Jipster]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:26 AM, wizard said:

That is very true. I met Mr. Karbe several times, and he was always thrilled by the improvements in image quality resulting from the progress in optical construction. Personally, he could hardly understand why anyone would use old and optically inferior lenses, let alone the new trend of reissue lenses. As an optical engineer, his aim always was to provide a lens that is as good as it gets (within the set boundaries obviously, such as for example size and cost).

But isn’t that what every optical engineer at Leica always did? You mean to tell me that there were optical engineers that could have, given the technology of the time, make a “better” lens (with optimal balance of minimal optical flaws) and decided not to, because they wanted to be “artistic” (whatever that means)? That would be ridiculous. Now, people can disagree with what the optimal balance of minimal flaws, but the goal of any optical engineer is to get as close to that optimal balance given the available technology. 

[Derbyshire Man]

On 4/28/2023 at 12:26 PM, wizard said:

That is very true. I met Mr. Karbe several times, and he was always thrilled by the improvements in image quality resulting from the progress in optical construction. Personally, he could hardly understand why anyone would use old and optically inferior lenses, let alone the new trend of reissue lenses. As an optical engineer, his aim always was to provide a lens that is as good as it gets (within the set boundaries obviously, such as for example size and cost).

Yep and his design strategy of super faithful reproduction/microcontrast above all else is a benefit and addition to the lens range. The Mandler and older lenses haven’t spontaneously combusted! Who knows what the next chief lens engineer will bring when Herr Karbe retires? All is grist to the mill and to be chosen and relished by those seeking to deliver art/documentary/snaps. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[snz]

On 3/19/2023 at 3:51 PM, Danner said:

Apparently, Mr. Karbe values technical perfection over artistic rendering.

Having used 24, 28, 35, 50 Summiluxe ASPH, the 28, 35, 50 and 75 Summicrons ASPH and 50 Noctilux ASPH I can say that the APO-Summicron 35mm draws the technical best image but at the same time has such an unique rendering to it... better than any Summilux in my eyes. That of course is personal taste but for me the 35er APO is Leica's masterpiece. I wish they would make a 28mm version.

Edited January 13, 2024 by snz

[wizard]

Am 13.1.2024 um 01:30 schrieb Jipster:

But isn’t that what every optical engineer at Leica always did?

In principle, yes.

 

Am 13.1.2024 um 01:30 schrieb Jipster:

You mean to tell me that there were optical engineers that could have, given the technology of the time, make a “better” lens (with optimal balance of minimal optical flaws) and decided not to, because they wanted to be “artistic” (whatever that means)? That would be ridiculous.

You are reading something into my post that is simply not there. I never said that there are lens designers who favour an artistic rendering over other parameters.

 

Am 13.1.2024 um 01:30 schrieb Jipster:

Now, people can disagree with what the optimal balance of minimal flaws, but the goal of any optical engineer is to get as close to that optimal balance given the available technology. 

There you go, optical design is always a question of balancing optical flaws. And every lens designer has its own "handwriting". Which means that lens designers A and B will likely regard different sets of optical parameters as 'the optimal balance', resulting in lenses that draw differently.