New M6 article by Jono.

[TomB_tx]

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15 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I still wonder how the pressure plate can scratch the film given that it's not (shouldn't) be actually pressing against the film as it's wound on. I must take a closer look at my M2 and see exactly how the film sits (never had scratch issues with the M2 just for clarity).

I suspect the issue is the radius "lead in" at the ends of the plate. Polishing the flat area may leave a burr along these edges. The film may tend to bulge upward as it approaches the film channel and the radius at the ends of the plate would guide the film into the film channel between the rails. 

[ktmrider2]

Perhaps the solution is for Leica to buy a bunch of M3's, M2's, M4's etc and remove their pressure plates and install them on the new Leica cameras.  Drives up the price of used M's while simultaneously solving the film scratching problem.  Leica used to know how to make parts for film cameras.  Seems like that know how is not there like it used to be.

[Matlock]

1 minute ago, ktmrider2 said:

Perhaps the solution is for Leica to buy a bunch of M3's, M2's, M4's etc and remove their pressure plates and install them on the new Leica cameras.  Drives up the price of used M's while simultaneously solving the film scratching problem.  Leica used to know how to make parts for film cameras.  Seems like that know how is not there like it used to be.

Whilst it sounds like a good idea, one person did just that and the camera still scratched the film. Film scratching has been reported since at least 2014.

[IkarusJohn]

When I started to read this thread, I thought - interesting topic.

After a few pages, I wondered if my M-A scratches, then I thought if I haven’t noticed, why bother.

Then I lost the will to live.

@jonoslack once you’ve tried all the permutations of scanning, can you share your setting for your plustech scanner, and the Epson one I have on my desk …

[wattsy]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

When I started to read this thread, I thought - interesting topic.

After a few pages, I wondered if my M-A scratches, then I thought if I haven’t noticed, why bother.

Then I lost the will to live.

Yes, I agree. At one point I was going to have a look at my negs but, like you, I decided not to bother. The whole saga has inevitably morphed into a kind of stand off between those for whom Leica have never done anything wrong (and for whom reported problems are almost always down to user error and/or because of unrealistic expectations of the product) and those, usually more shouty types, who feel aggrieved that an elite $5,000 product (interestingly, the same argument isn't often expressed in other currencies) isn't better in some respect than a $50 dollar product more popular with the proles. The latter group also seem to be the ones for whom the paper outer box is all-important to avoid the apparently inevitable $50-100 loss of resale value. 😂

Edited March 5, 2023 by wattsy

[RayD28]

MP #49834XX.  I just checked a couple of rolls of Portra 400 that were lab developed and scanned.  Nothing to report.  I am not looking at home developed negatives since they generally have some self-inflicted flaws.  

[Mikep996]

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"and those, usually more shouty types, who feel aggrieved that an elite $5,000 product (interestingly, the same argument isn't often expressed in other currencies) isn't better in some respect than a $50 dollar product more popular with the proles. "

 

Am I misreading your statement or are you saying that people who received a defective 5000 dollar camera shouldn't be upset about it?

There is no excuse for the customer-service treatment Huss has received from Leica. Hey, I'm a big Leica fan.  I have owned four different film Leica's back in the day and three different Digi Leica's.  All of them functioned perfectly and my 1984 M6 is still doing so never having been CLA'd.  But if I had purchased a new M6 that scratched film, I'd be pretty darned upset if Leica Hussed me instead of immediately replacing it with a new, NON SCRATCHING M6.

[wattsy]

2 hours ago, Mikep996 said:

Am I misreading your statement or are you saying that people who received a defective 5000 dollar camera shouldn't be upset about it?

No, I’m just saying that the saga of the scratching M5 is getting a bit tedious and the sense of outrage engendered is unnecessary. It doesn’t require a running commentary and can be dealt with quietly off the forum. I’m sure the retailer of a defective camera will provide a full refund if the new owner doesn’t want to wait for a replacement or repair. 

[LocalHero1953]

It's an issue that seems to have taken over the analogue part of the forum. In the case of Huss, it is complicated because he bought the first offending body from another country, so obtaining the normal redress via national consumer protection legislation is tricky.*

I have sympathy for the poor service he has received from Leica (though it is not clear if the problem is New York or Wetzlar), but he does seem to be using the forum to put pressure on Leica - it might get him a result in the end, but it's tedious for the rest of us to listen to one side of a bad tempered conversation. It's also tedious to read all the others who don't actually have a new film M with a fault piling in and amplifying. And since there have been those who have seen faults where there are none, or not seen faults that are actually there, working out the true extent of Leica's QC problems is a quagmire.

 

* I have been in a similar situation. I was so keen to get a Sigma fp that I bought one from B&H NY, long before they were available in the UK. It had a fault. Sigma UK performed just as I would have hoped - willingly accepted responsibility for it, took it in and fixed it fairly quickly. I saw no need to make a big deal of the fault here, and obviously had no need to complain about the service I received.

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, wattsy said:

Yes, I agree. At one point I was going to have a look at my negs but, like you, I decided not to bother. The whole saga has inevitably morphed into a kind of stand off between those for whom Leica have never done anything wrong (and for whom reported problems are almost always down to user error and/or because of unrealistic expectations of the product) and those, usually more shouty types, who feel aggrieved that an elite $5,000 product (interestingly, the same argument isn't often expressed in other currencies) isn't better in some respect than a $50 dollar product more popular with the proles. The latter group also seem to be the ones for whom the paper outer box is all-important to avoid the apparently inevitable $50-100 loss of resale value. 😂

Insulting and uncalled for.

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

...but it's tedious for the rest of us to listen to one side of a bad tempered conversation. It's also tedious to read all the others who don't actually have a new film M with a fault piling in and amplifying....

In fairness, we don't have to read everything posted in this forum, even if we find it annoying that certain threads keep popping up to the top. There are several threads across multiple sub-forums here that I have stopped checking in on, and my experience here has been better since.

But at this point, the other M6 film scratching thread has become more about the poor repair service provided by Leica NJ than it is about the M6 or any film camera.

Edited March 5, 2023 by hdmesa

[LocalHero1953]

10 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

In fairness, we don't have to read everything posted in this forum, even if we find it annoying that certain threads keep popping up to the top. There are several threads across multiple sub-forums here that I have stopped checking in on, and my experience here has been better since.

That's true when it was just one thread (made up a of a couple of previous threads, merged). But then it popped up here (which was actually about a review of the M6, not about scratching) and has recently infected the 'I love my MP' thread. 

FWIW I AM interested in how the scratching saga plays out, but I prefer to choose when to read about it. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[hdmesa]

37 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

That's true when it was just one thread (made up a of a couple of previous threads, merged). But then it popped up here (which was actually about a review of the M6, not about scratching) and has recently infected the 'I love my MP' thread. 

FWIW I AM interested in how the scratching saga plays out, but I prefer to choose when to read about it. 

Yeah someone asked me about scratching in the MP thread, and I tried to deflect and redirect.

This thread should probably be merged into the scratching thread at this point.

[Mike Rawcs]

49 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

 

 

50 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Yeah someone asked me about scratching in the MP thread, and I tried to deflect and redirect.

This thread should probably be merged into the scratching thread at this point.

I started the thread and I'm more-than happy for it to be deleted.

[Huss]

4 hours ago, wattsy said:

.. It doesn’t require a running commentary and can be dealt with quietly off the forum..

Yes let's keep quiet about it.  Very useful.

Hush hush so we feel better about our purchases.  

"Look at me  - I have a Leica!"

"Does it work correctly?"

"Someone who truly appreciates Leica does not care about such plebeian things"

p.s. you commenting on a thread you wished did not exist adds to the running commentary.
 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Huss

[Huss]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

That's true when it was just one thread (made up a of a couple of previous threads, merged). But then it popped up here (which was actually about a review of the M6, not about scratching) and has recently infected the 'I love my MP' thread. 

FWIW I AM interested in how the scratching saga plays out, but I prefer to choose when to read about it. 

It popped up here because Jono's review of the M6 showed that his too scratches film.  

 

[LocalHero1953]

Jono's review does not mention anything of the sort (rightly or wrongly). It was only raised in posts by others in response.

Edited March 5, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[UliWer]

Gerade eben schrieb LocalHero1953:

He has actually posted, i

Yes, I was wrong.

[Auroralabs]

7 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

* I have been in a similar situation. I was so keen to get a Sigma fp that I bought one from B&H NY, long before they were available in the UK. It had a fault. Sigma UK performed just as I would have hoped - willingly accepted responsibility for it, took it in and fixed it fairly quickly. I saw no need to make a big deal of the fault here, and obviously had no need to complain about the service I received.

Sigma fixed your issue quickly with your fp which cost a fraction of a Leica. But in Huss' case, he waited weeks for a fix. Leica NJ didn't double-check their "fix" after weeks. He sent it and waited weeks again for the second time. Leica NJ was going to send out his camera, without checking the "fix". Again. Additionally, they didn't fix the ISO dial he reported. It's really no one's fault but Leica's here that so much discussion about this continues.  It's not fair to gaslight the customers that are frustrated with both the poor QC and poor service.

 

[LocalHero1953]

3 minutes ago, Auroralabs said:

Sigma fixed your issue quickly with your fp which cost a fraction of a Leica. But in Huss' case, he waited weeks for a fix. Leica NJ didn't double-check their "fix" after weeks. He sent it and waited weeks again for the second time. Leica NJ was going to send out his camera, without checking the "fix". Again. Additionally, they didn't fix the ISO dial he reported. It's really no one's fault but Leica's here that so much discussion about this continues.  It's not fair to gaslight the customers that are frustrated with both the poor QC and poor service.

 

No one's gaslighting. The customers have a right to post about their poor service and camera faults.

Let's just keep it to threads on the subject. That's what forum threads are for: to keep similar subject matter together.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[hdmesa]

8 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

No one's gaslighting.

Well, you weren't, but some others are pretty openly doing so 👍