New M6 article by Jono.

[RayD28]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Wouldn't it be great if an official Leica spokesperson addressed the scratching pressure plate?  I don't doubt what @Huss was told by Leica, but I do question the knowledge and credibility of the person who told him about the bad batch of pressure plates.  A spokesperson or interview with a spokesperson discussing the scratching, and what remediation will occur, would go a long ways to bringing this matter to a close.  

[tjxism]

53 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

Wouldn't it be great if an official Leica spokesperson addressed the scratching pressure plate?  I don't doubt what @Huss was told by Leica, but I do question the knowledge and credibility of the person who told him about the bad batch of pressure plates.  A spokesperson or interview with a spokesperson discussing the scratching, and what remediation will occur, would go a long ways to bringing this matter to a close.  

That would be great but my hopes aren’t high. There has been several claims (including myself) regarding the scratching issue on this forum back in 2019/2020. I didn’t send my camera back for a repair then, but others did. I haven’t visited this forum until this year and realized that Leica haven’t fixed the issue. 
 

I have sent my scratching MP back to Leica 2 weeks ago. No idea if they will/can fix it or not. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Mikep996]

"A spokesperson or interview with a spokesperson discussing the scratching, and what remediation will occur, would go a long ways to bringing this matter to a close.  

The cynical side of me leads me to ponder...If you are Leica, "this matter" seems to only exist on this forum, it doesn't appear to affect Leica sales of the new M6 so why do anything other than service the individual cameras that may be sent in?  😉

I completely agree that the "right" thing to do - which has nearly no traction in the modern world - is to publicly announce the issue,  the steps taken to correct it and the procedure to have it repaired should the problem exist in any given camera.

[ianman]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:44 AM, Matlock said:

Don't you love it when that happens 🙂 

All too often… but it’s usually the bathroom floor.

[BradS]

The emperor has no clothes!

[250swb]

6 hours ago, Mikep996 said:

 

The cynical side of me leads me to ponder...If you are Leica, "this matter" seems to only exist on this forum, it doesn't appear to affect Leica sales of the new M6 so why do anything other than service the individual cameras that may be sent in?  😉

 

The reason it’s a prominent issue on this forum is because we are geeks and critical photographers. But the reality is the vast majority of new M6 owners won’t notice any scratches even if they have them, and if they do it will only lead to curiosity and nothing more, maybe blaming it on the lab. The camera will be used once or twice a year, as most cameras are, holidays and Christmas. So by the time the warranty has expired and the scratches start to become annoying that is when Leica lose a customer. And then the new owner starts having to deal with the scratches. Unless Leica make a statement about this, like the M9 sensor problem, the consequences of scratch-gate could go in for many years to come

[hdmesa]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

The reason it’s a prominent issue on this forum is because we are geeks and critical photographers. But the reality is the vast majority of new M6 owners won’t notice any scratches even if they have them, and if they do it will only lead to curiosity and nothing more, maybe blaming it on the lab. The camera will be used once or twice a year, as most cameras are, holidays and Christmas. So by the time the warranty has expired and the scratches start to become annoying that is when Leica lose a customer. And then the new owner starts having to deal with the scratches. Unless Leica make a statement about this, like the M9 sensor problem, the consequences of scratch-gate could go in for many years to come

The scratches are noticeable by anyone (IMO) on images scanned from b&w film, but you're right that most people will blame the lab or themselves. And if they're shooting color film, they may never notice since the scratches are usually removed by the scanning software.

[earleygallery]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

The reason it’s a prominent issue on this forum is because we are geeks and critical photographers. But the reality is the vast majority of new M6 owners won’t notice any scratches even if they have them, and if they do it will only lead to curiosity and nothing more, maybe blaming it on the lab. The camera will be used once or twice a year, as most cameras are, holidays and Christmas. So by the time the warranty has expired and the scratches start to become annoying that is when Leica lose a customer. And then the new owner starts having to deal with the scratches. Unless Leica make a statement about this, like the M9 sensor problem, the consequences of scratch-gate could go in for many years to come

I said before that if Leica have identified a problem with the components they should do a product recall.

Oh No!! Cried others, that would ruin their reputation!!

My BMW had a recall for a potentially faulty part and my sister has just had the same for her Suzuki. I don’t think it’s ruined their reputations, rather it shows good customer service.

But yes, let’s hope that the majority of new M6 owners don’t notice a problem until the warranty expires….

[plaidshirts]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

The reason it’s a prominent issue on this forum is because we are geeks and critical photographers. But the reality is the vast majority of new M6 owners won’t notice any scratches even if they have them, and if they do it will only lead to curiosity and nothing more, maybe blaming it on the lab. The camera will be used once or twice a year, as most cameras are, holidays and Christmas. So by the time the warranty has expired and the scratches start to become annoying that is when Leica lose a customer. And then the new owner starts having to deal with the scratches. Unless Leica make a statement about this, like the M9 sensor problem, the consequences of scratch-gate could go in for many years to come

Even if they did notice them, the casual user with only 1 camera may think the scratches are normal. They have nothing to compare it to.

Edited March 1, 2023 by plaidshirts

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, plaidshirts said:

Even if they did notice them, the casual user with only 1 camera may think the scratches are normal. They have nothing to compare it to.

I don't think anyone would think it was normal even for a disposable film camera. Maybe if they bought a Holga or something they might even want that effect, but otherwise I think they'd protest.

[250swb]

12 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I don't think anyone would think it was normal even for a disposable film camera. Maybe if they bought a Holga or something they might even want that effect, but otherwise I think they'd protest.

But Holga's don't scratch the negative, and casual users don't use Holga's. We like to think that the new M6 is being bought mostly by keen photographers, but it isn't, it's mostly being bought as a trophy, a status symbol, just like a Rolex, or a Porsche. Hardly anybody buying a Rolex or Porsche cares what goes on inside and what it can do remains as potential, something read about in the brochure but never delivered. And such is the case with high end cameras. It will be very fashionable in Monaco this Summer to have a new Leica M6 that uses film, so much more exotic than a digital camera, and unlikely to be used for anything other than holiday snaps. And next year it will be something else.

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, 250swb said:

But Holga's don't scratch the negative, and casual users don't use Holga's. We like to think that the new M6 is being bought mostly by keen photographers, but it isn't, it's mostly being bought as a trophy, a status symbol, just like a Rolex, or a Porsche. Hardly anybody buying a Rolex or Porsche cares what goes on inside and what it can do remains as potential, something read about in the brochure but never delivered. And such is the case with high end cameras. It will be very fashionable in Monaco this Summer to have a new Leica M6 that uses film, so much more exotic than a digital camera, and unlikely to be used for anything other than holiday snaps. And next year it will be something else.

Probably true about many M6 buyers. But I'm not sure all Holga buyers are serious film shooters. I remember seeing them sold as novelties at Urban Outfitters clothing stores a few years back.

[Steve Ricoh]

1 hour ago, earleygallery said:

But yes, let’s hope that the majority of new M6 owners don’t notice a problem until the warranty expires….

Is that a joke. If not, why not. Serious questions.

[earleygallery]

45 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

Is that a joke. If not, why not. Serious questions.

If it made you chuckle or smirk I guess it can count as a joke. If it offended you then it was definitely a joke.

Edited March 1, 2023 by earleygallery

[dem331]

8 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I said before that if Leica have identified a problem with the components they should do a product recall.

Oh No!! Cried others, that would ruin their reputation!!

My BMW had a recall for a potentially faulty part and my sister has just had the same for her Suzuki. I don’t think it’s ruined their reputations, rather it shows good customer service.

But yes, let’s hope that the majority of new M6 owners don’t notice a problem until the warranty expires….

I do not think that they should recall. 

My BMW (motorbike) and my Jaguar (car) had recalls, one for a faulty cardan shaft the other for a faulty passenger side airbag. Both recalls were after several deadly accidents were reported. In the case of the BMW there had been a “Cardangate” going on in the BMW forum for many years with many documented cases of damaged cardans. In the case of the Jaguar the recall was in 2022 for cars manufactured in 2008-2009. 

So I am not convinced automotive manufacturers recall unless they are absolutely forced to do so, either by the authorities that investigate accidents,  or by the risk of potential lawsuits or by the commercial need to protect the brand in very specific cases. 

In the case of Leica I do not think “Scratchgate” is damaging their reputation, and it is unlikely to be putting anyone’s life at risk. I have done an internet search and “Scratchgate” is hardly mentioned , and when it is, it is by the same people that are posting on this forum. 

What percentage of Leicas customers are active readers of this forum?  I don’t know, but maybe 5% at most? 

What percentage of active members of this forum will buy a new Leica analog camera? A very, very low number. They shoot digital and/or have plenty of analog cameras already. 

How many people will not buy a new analog Leica because of “Scratchgate”? Tending to zero. 

How many people will not buy a new digital Leica product because of “Scratchgate”? Tending to zero. 

Would Leicas reputation be more damaged by recalling the M6 because it  scratches than by solving issues that are reported on a case-by-case basis? Unequivocally yes. This would be reported all over the internet including non-photographic forums and news outlets. 

So I think it makes no commercial sense for Leica to recall or publicly confess to  “Scratchgate”. In fact it would probably be a bad mistake. 
 

Just for clarity:

Do I believe that a batch of Leicas have scratched film? YES

Do I think that Leica should improve customer service for people that return Leicas that scratch (and in other areas)? YES

[Steve Ricoh]

8 hours ago, earleygallery said:

If it made you chuckle or smirk I guess it can count as a joke. If it offended you then it was definitely a joke.

A fan boy for sure. But all the same an odd reply.

[Huss]

For all those fan bois who claim this is not an issue, email from Leica.   Remember when they claimed only a tiny # of M9s had defective sensors?  Well, take this 'small batch' in that spirit...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[earleygallery]

I still wonder how the pressure plate can scratch the film given that it's not (shouldn't) be actually pressing against the film as it's wound on. I must take a closer look at my M2 and see exactly how the film sits (never had scratch issues with the M2 just for clarity).

[mshchem]

My understanding of the problem with Huss' camera is the film is scratched or marred on the side of the film without the emulsion. The side in contact with the pressure plate. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[RayD28]

18 hours ago, Huss said:

For all those fan bois who claim this is not an issue, email from Leica.   Remember when they claimed only a tiny # of M9s had defective sensors?  Well, take this 'small batch' in that spirit...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks for posting this, Huss.  It documents Leica's acknowledgment.  

Whey they say they "are doing everything in their power to source you a proper one", what they should do is go to the warehouse, grab a brand new camera, and overnight it to you.  When a "proper" pressure plate arrives they can refurb your old camera and sell it as Leica certified.  

I hope Leica takes care of you quickly.