Danner Posted February 26, 2023 Share #41 Posted February 26, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 2/24/2023 at 5:34 PM, mosh1 said: I noticed the Printfile sleeves I put my negatives in leave horizontal scratches. Probably on insertion or removal. So there are many things that can scratch the film depending on what happened before getting scanned. That can happen when squeegeeing the film strip after the final water-Photoflo rinse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 26, 2023 Posted February 26, 2023 Hi Danner, Take a look here New M6 article by Jono.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Mike Rawcs Posted February 26, 2023 Author Share #42 Posted February 26, 2023 I'm sorry I started this thread now! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #43 Posted February 26, 2023 Hi, Right Scratches - My Camera does NOT scratch film, but I did - some of the images on that had been scanned 5 different times (I was testing different scanning techniques) and I'd obviously been clumsy. the proof of the pudding is that I've just got back 3 films from a Lab scanned with a Noritsu scanner (90Mb Tiff files) - there are no scratches anywhere. This is me, not Leica, and it makes me wonder . . . . . . But when I posted this I wasn't aware of the furore! @Huss did you get a good response from Leica? I can't take back these images, but I really hope that everyone who has read the thread sees this! 1 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #44 Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 10:50 PM, Huss said: That is so much worse than mine. If I was him, I'd have a talk with Leica. Hopefully they will just exchange his for another one, instead have him waiting for months for a repair Hi There Huss This is me - not the camera - and 3 films from an independent lab scanned on a Noritsu show no scratches Some of these images had already been scanned 5 times (trying different techniques) This is not a Leica problem (even if yours was) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #45 Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/25/2023 at 8:16 AM, 250swb said: You may also ask why you aren't seeing any dust in most of the photographs, and the answer is the 'clone tool', and it could just as easily have been used on scratches. In fact the only time I see dust is in the photos with scratches. Digital scanning of film is merciless in highlighting slight imperfections and I imagine they've been gone over. Surely Jono has read the forum about the problems with scratching, and surely he has looked closely at the photos he made? So it is curious to post an image with bad scratches and then say nothing about it. So he's neither avoiding the issue or confronting it. Hi There I was just being clumsy with the scanning (over and over) I've learned my lesson, but it's nothing to do with the camera! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #46 Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 11:14 PM, Mikep996 said: WOW! That's really bad and it's difficult for me to believe that the camera did that as opposed to a processing problem. I will readily admit to being a Leica fan in the original film days and in the M10 and beyond digital days but this really starts me wondering about the marque overall. Pretty sad...😢 Interestingly, In looking at all the pics in the article, I see scratches in some, not in others...puzzling.🤔 My Bad Mike Clumsiness scanning and processing Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #47 Posted February 26, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 2/24/2023 at 11:41 PM, Huss said: I have used literally thousands of printfile sleeves and have never had them scratch. Also don't forget - Leica admitted there is a bad batch of pressure plates. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the one right in front of you. Hi again A recent batch of films from Exposure Lab processed and scanned on a Noritsu have made it very clear that the scratches on these images are to do with my clumisiness, and not the camera (even if yours were not). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #48 Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/25/2023 at 7:20 PM, Huss said: No way those beautiful, parallel, evenly spaced scratches could have been made by dropping the film. No - certainly not - but by pulling them through the negative holder when I was scanning - and putting them back into the sleeves over and over again whilst scanning using different techniques. As I say - 3 films back from the processor show no scratches . . . doesn't mean yours weren't, but this is my fault. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #49 Posted February 26, 2023 Okay - so the best thing I can do here is to post some scans direct from Exposure Lab taken with the same camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/368456-new-m6-article-by-jono/?do=findComment&comment=4701854'>More sharing options...
logan2z Posted February 26, 2023 Share #50 Posted February 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, jonoslack said: Okay - so the best thing I can do here is to post some scans direct from Exposure Lab taken with the same camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thanks for posting the images. It might also be worth examining the negatives directly as it's possible that any visible defects in the scans were cloned out by the lab. If the negatives look fine, then I'd love to know which negative sleeves you've been using so I can avoid them I've never seen scratches from the Printfile sleeves I use and I've inserted/removed negatives dozens of times. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #51 Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, logan2z said: Thanks for posting the images. It might also be worth examining the negatives directly as it's possible that any visible defects in the scans were cloned out by the lab. If the negatives look fine, then I'd love to know which negative sleeves you've been using so I can avoid them I've never seen scratches from the Printfile sleeves I use and I've inserted/removed negatives dozens of times. Hi There Our house was built in 1690, and dust is a terrible problem, so it's not the sleeves, it's me being clumsy PS - when I have the negs back from the processor I'm going to do a comparison of different scanning techniques, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be a lot more careful! Edited February 26, 2023 by jonoslack Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted February 26, 2023 Share #52 Posted February 26, 2023 29 minutes ago, logan2z said: It might also be worth examining the negatives directly as it's possible that any visible defects in the scans were cloned out by the lab... @jonoslack, yes please report back when you have the negatives the lab scanned and let us know if they are indeed free of scratches. A good lab will remove scratches at the time of scanning, so perfect lab scans do not necessarily mean the negatives were not scratched. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 26, 2023 Share #53 Posted February 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, jonoslack said: Hi There Our house was built in 1690, and dust is a terrible problem, so it's not the sleeves, it's me being clumsy PS - when I have the negs back from the processor I'm going to do a comparison of different scanning techniques, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be a lot more careful! I have taken, processed, had processed, scanned, and had scanned film over many years; I have had plenty of films that have ended up scratched, but I can't think of one of my cameras that has scratched them (a sample of one user). Unless you were closely following a couple of threads on this forum, one would assume that human error in film handling is the most likely source of scratches, as in your case. A number of new Leica film cameras have scratched films and Leica has acknowledged that (though has responded poorly in several cases), but the longer time has gone on, and as the noise level has crescendoed, without many more reports, the more likely it appears that the number of faulty cameras is small. It's a pity that it has become impossible to talk about the new M6 here (or a new MP or MA) without 'scratch' posts getting in the way. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #54 Posted February 26, 2023 1 minute ago, LocalHero1953 said: I have taken, processed, had processed, scanned, and had scanned film over many years; I have had plenty of films that have ended up scratched, but I can't think of one of my cameras that has scratched them (a sample of one user). Unless you were closely following a couple of threads on this forum, one would assume that human error in film handling is the most likely source of scratches, as in your case. A number of new Leica film cameras have scratched films and Leica has acknowledged that (though has responded poorly in several cases), but the longer time has gone on, and as the noise level has crescendoed, without many more reports, the more likely it appears that the number of faulty cameras is small. It's a pity that it has become impossible to talk about the new M6 here (or a new MP or MA) without 'scratch' posts getting in the way. Hi Paul I just wish I hadn't inadvertently fanned the flames with my own clumsiness! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 26, 2023 Share #55 Posted February 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, hdmesa said: @jonoslack, yes please report back when you have the negatives the lab scanned and let us know if they are indeed free of scratches. A good lab will remove scratches at the time of scanning, so perfect lab scans do not necessarily mean the negatives were not scratched. Hi There I've already checked 2 films where the negs have come back - they seem fine. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 26, 2023 Share #56 Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, jonoslack said: Hi Paul I just wish I hadn't inadvertently fanned the flames with my own clumsiness! My point was that no one would have noticed scratches on your film if it hadn't coincided with Scratchgate! And I certainly can't claim never to have scratched film! Edited February 26, 2023 by LocalHero1953 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 26, 2023 Share #57 Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) For comparison I wonder how many times HCB's negatives have been pulled out of negative sleeves over the years? And in an age when there wasn't any software to fix scratches. It's a case of being damned if you do and damned if you don't. A roll of lab scans without software fixing is likely to show a few tiny specks of dust, so no dust at all suggests it's been fixed with software. Which means perfect lab scans are the worst enemy in proving there are no scratches. Of course HP5 etc. can't be fixed by ICE, only C41 films (colour negative and XP2), but a clone tool can be used in post processing. So for the sceptical there is always a level of doubt possible, but this is Jono we are talking about and I'm only amazed by how clumsy he is. 😄 Edited February 26, 2023 by 250swb 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmans Posted February 26, 2023 Share #58 Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) It is common for a scanned negative to have some inherent 'dust' and perhaps some scratches but not uniform over multiple negatives/images..... Given that....If we are presented with images that have no scratches and no dust....most likely some post processing was performed (Lab or the individual). I am trying to gather my head around some images presented in the Jono article and to see how they fit with the above. An image that shows no scratches what-so-ever.... Okay, ...but also no dust, ....doesn't that imply some degree of post processing as opposed to being directly out of camera, and scanned with no processing. In the case of Huss.... I assume his scratches were uniform in nature over several negatives (not even talking about dust). Edited February 26, 2023 by lmans 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0071 Posted February 26, 2023 Share #59 Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 3:14 PM, Mikep996 said: WOW! That's really bad and it's difficult for me to believe that the camera did that as opposed to a processing problem. I will readily admit to being a Leica fan in the original film days and in the M10 and beyond digital days but this really starts me wondering about the marque overall. Pretty sad...😢 Interestingly, In looking at all the pics in the article, I see scratches in some, not in others...puzzling.🤔 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0071 Posted February 26, 2023 Share #60 Posted February 26, 2023 Something unusual and related I had some spots in my transfers turns out after some very careful investigation techniques my curtain had been stabbed out, one of my X girlfriends had a breakdown over my very risqué portraits with a mistress 😀, nothing a little rubber glue couldn't fix, 😄😄😄 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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