Leica Elmarit-R 19mm f/2.8 OR 21mm Summilux on Leica SL2-S

[Adam_James]

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Hello,

     Thank you for all your help from my prior post.  I own an SL2-S and 24-90 zoom.  I am going to Turkey and Tunisia and want to shoot Roman ruins and will be bringing tripod, filters and trying to be as precise as possible.  I plan on using a CV 10mm Super Wide Heliar for specific purposes, and already bought the Nisi filter holder.

     Would you buy the 19mm Elmarit-R f2.8 v2 or get a 21mm Summilux.  I want to walk around and get artistic shots.  Based on where I’m going Turkey and Tunisia and what lenses are part of my lineup:

Leica SL Zoom 24-90

CV 10mm Hyper wide Heliar

Does it make more sense to get a 19 or 21?

 

[robb]

I’d vote 19!

I used that lens with my R8’s and thought it was great.

but if you want smaller and lighter, the m 21 3.4 is fantastic.  

Robb

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[OR120]

For Me - the 19mm R always.  The 19 R has such a beautiful look and unfortunately falls into that very full list of lenses I never should have traded. So many lenses on that list for me.

[BernardC]

Assuming time allows, you should consider the upcoming (rumoured) APO Summicron-SL 21. It will match the look of your SL zoom. 

Now is the time to contact your dealer if you want one when it is released. 

[Adam_James]

Hello Robb,

     Thanks for replying.  I have discovered that I can get a step-up ring that screws directly onto the 19mm F2.8 V2 and then I could use screw in filters.  I guess use the Leica Turret internal filters for walk around photography on street, then break out the filters and adapter when using tripod for landscape 

[Adam_James]

It’s anyone’s guess when the 21 Apo Summicron will come out.  

[robb]

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The 21 Summicron is expected to ship in March or April 2023.  I am first in line at my dealer so am eagerly anticipating it.  Best mtf's I have ever seen on a super wide...

Robb

[MarkP]

If you don’t need the speed and the SL2 has IBIS, the 21 SEM is fantastic on the SL2.  I also have the 21 Summilux M which is a pleasure to use on the SL2 and balances very nicely, but the SEM renders more sympathetically with the SL lenses.

Edited December 29, 2022 by MarkP

[LeicaR10]

Adam_James,   I was just told today by my Leica dealer in CA, the SL21 is shipping in January.  You have a number of great choices available as MarkP and Robb suggested, i.e. SL21, SL16-35, 21 SEM, R 19.  Happy New Year!  r/ Mark

Edited December 29, 2022 by LeicaR10

[MarkP]

48 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Adam_James,   I was just told today by my Leica dealer in CA, the SL21 is shipping in January.  You have a number of great choices available as MarkP and Robb suggested, i.e. SL21, SL16-35, 21 SEM, R 19.  Happy New Year!  r/ Mark

I forgot to mention the 16-35SL which I also have - stellar lens

[Adam_James]

Thanks everyone for your replies

[AZN]

3 hours ago, robb said:

Best mtf's I have ever seen on a super wide...

Er - where?

[robb]

Def worth waiting for… like I said… best ever.

Robb

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[Stuart Richardson]

If we are just going by MTF, the Sigma 14-24mm zoom looks to be similar, to be honest...the Sigma MTF's are for diffraction MTF wide open and the bottom line is 30lpm. Leica's bottom line is 40mm, but next line is 20lpm. So Sigma fits kind of in between.

If it were me, I would pass on both the adapted Leica lenses and get a native L mount lens, either the 14-24, or more likely, the Sigma 20mm f1.4 Art. In my experience, the better Sigmas lenses are optically superior to M lenses on an L mount body. The 19mm 2.8 was a great lens in the R system, but optically at least, time has moved on, and all the l mount native lenses seem to be optically better. If you just want a Leica lens no matter what, then the 16-35mm and upcoming 21mm will serve you better.

 

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Edited December 29, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[beewee]

You can’t directly compare the Sigma and Leica MTFs. The Sigma MTFs are for 10 and 30 lpmm, whereas Leica is 5, 10, 20, 40 lpmm. Some mental interpolation is needed.

With that said, the Sigma 14-24 DG DN is sharper wide open than the 16-35 SL but there are trade offs in more flaring/ghosting on the Sigma.

I’d be very curious to see what the 21 APO SL look like. If it’s anything close to the 28 APO SL and you only care about 21mm, I’d totally wait for the 21 APO.

[jannes]

I would buy the Sigma 14-24mm. You will have no regrets.

[dpitt]

Does anyone have both the 19 R and the SEM 21, or the Elmarit M ASPH? I would be interested in seeing some examples from these great lenses on the SL2-S.  The  R 19 is a Mandler design. He was very good at balancing all technical challenges, and was not primarily focused on sharpness.

[SrMi]

Sigma 20mm f/2 DG DN Contemporary is a lightweight and high-quality alternative.

[Stuart Richardson]

8 hours ago, beewee said:

You can’t directly compare the Sigma and Leica MTFs. The Sigma MTFs are for 10 and 30 lpmm, whereas Leica is 5, 10, 20, 40 lpmm. Some mental interpolation is needed.

 

Yes, that is why I said as much in my post. I still think it is fairly clear that there is not a world of difference between them, at least on the published MTF. Given a similar price, the Leica would surely be the one to get, but seeing as it is still not even announced yet and is on track to cost fives times as much, the Sigma lenses are worth a look in the meantime. In Europe at least the Sigma lens on its own is likely to cost less than just the tax on the Leica lens.

As for the 19mm. I had this lens on Leica R. It is quite good. Vintage lenses can hold up well, but the ones that tend to hold up best are the standard lenses and telephotos. Wide angle lenses like this tend to be the most difficult to design, and it is an area where computer aided lens design and more sophisticated aspherical element design has come along to really push forward the quality of the design. At least from my perspective, you are not going to be getting a lot of "look" out of a 19mm lens. Since it is so wide, bokeh is not really a factor. Your main optical characteristics are going to be distortion, flare control, sharpness and lack of color fringing. All of those are likely to be better in a newer lens. I would say if you are looking for character, spend that money on a longer lens...a 35mm 1.4 Summilux R, 80mm Summilux etc. The 19mm is just a wide angle...not a particularly remarkable one by modern standards.

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[Planetwide]

If the 21mm SL Summicron is out, get that. I think that it will be stellar, and better than any of the other lenses mentioned. If it is not available, then get the SL 16-35mm or Sigma 14-24mm. The SL is narrower, but takes screw on filters. The Sigma requires a giant adapter etc... The R19mm has a beautiful look, and is special in its own way, but the corners are barely there at F8. The 21mm M would be my last choice, because it is weight, and for speed I would shoot a 24mm or 35mm F1.4

I do own the 19mm.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Planetwide