Leica SL2 + Panasonic 24-70/2.8

[agentsim]

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Hi,

I recently traded my Leica M system for the SL2 and Sigma 24-70 DG DN Art.

Some recent photos wound up being an inadvertent stress test for the Sigma. A flat, rusty, textured metal surface, at 70mm, f2.8 minimum distance. The result was a little disappointing. Outside of about the APS-C imaging area, the image was very soft. Some quick Googling revealed that this is a known issue with the Sigma.

I have an opportunity to trade the Sigma for the Panasonic 24-70/2.8 S PRO.

Is the Panasonic an upgrade from the Sigma for stills work? Would it also suffer from softness in the situation I described?

Does the Panasonic work properly on the Leica SL2? I read that it was focus throw options and such on Panasonic bodies and those aren't available on the Leica.

[JohnathanLovm]

Ever considering 24-90?

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[agentsim]

1 minute ago, JohnathanLovm said:

Ever considering 24-90?

Yes, I'm looking around for a used one at a decent price. I'm not sure about the Leica 24-70. From what I understand it is a better QA version of the Sigma, so I'm not hugely interested right now.

For now I'm presented with an opportunity to do swap the Sigma for a Panasonic, so that's what I'm trying to understand.

[Malabito]

I wouldn't get the panasonic lens to be used with a leica body, sadly due to the push/pull mechanism you won't be able to use back focus button in a leica body. Is not an issue with the lens, it is an issue with leica implementation. I had the lens when i had the s1 and after getting the sl2s i sold the lens. 

[goodbokeh]

agentsim, the Panasonic 24-70 is a very nice lens but it is also very large and heavy. It's overall performance is not better than your Sigma 24-70, in fact the Red Dot forum folks at Leica Miami don't think it achieves the same performance level. From what I understand close focus at 70mm is the only weakness of your Sigma, which is otherwise superb. Is close focus performance at 70mm going to be a significant proportion of your photos? If so you might also consider a prime in this focal length like the Sigma 70mm f/2.8 DG Macro Art or the very well regarded Sigma 105mm f/2.8 Dg Dn Macro Art.

[agentsim]

Thanks Malabito and goodbokeh, that's super helpful. I'll stick with the SIgma and save up either for a couple of primes or a used 24-90.

[Stuart Richardson]

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The 24-90mm is very good, but a good prime is almost always going to outdo it, unless they are from very different price points and generations. I agree with goodbokeh...if you want a sharper lens for close ups, I would definitely recommend the 105mm Sigma. I have had Leica's best macros over the years (100mm APO Elmarit R and 120mm APO Macro Summarit S), and the Sigma is right up there with them in image quality. It handles very well on the SL2, does a native 1 to 1, performs exceptionally at infinity as well, and is very affordable. I think I would recommend that over the 70mm (which I have admittedly not tried), if only because you have the 70mm already on the zoom, and the 105mm extends your range and capabilities quite a bit, while still being short enough to be a general use telephoto in most circumstances. It certainly will not disappoint you with sharpness...

[agentsim]

Thanks for the advice. I've been looking at the Sigma 105/2.8 Macro, as well as the 50 and 85 1.4 Art lenses. I have never tried an ultra-wide, so I might rent (or buy then sell) something like the 14-24.

[Planetwide]

I own the Panasonic, and it is a very good lens. It will focus just fine on the SL2. Panasonic S Pro series lenses were designed by Leica, so its a very familiar look.

This was hot on an S1r, but its the same sensor as the SL2

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[Planetwide]

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[agentsim]

Thanks Planetwide, lovely pictures. I'll certainly consider the 50/1.4 S Pro when I'm ready to go prime shopping. For my purposes now though, I think my question of whether the 24-70 S Pro is a significant upgrade from the 24-70 Art has been answered.

[goodbokeh]

agentsim, heads up. This macro lens was just announced today. It's small, light, likely to have a Leica SL Asph. version based upon it also:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1802181-REG/panasonic_s_e100_lumix_s_100mm_f_2_8.html

[agentsim]

Yeah I saw that. Initial reviews seem pretty good too. I like that it is pretty small and light. I'd love to see that philosophy embraced by Leica and Sigma too!

[Malabito]

On 1/7/2024 at 8:14 PM, goodbokeh said:

agentsim, the Panasonic 24-70 is a very nice lens but it is also very large and heavy. It's overall performance is not better than your Sigma 24-70, in fact the Red Dot forum folks at Leica Miami don't think it achieves the same performance level. From what I understand close focus at 70mm is the only weakness of your Sigma, which is otherwise superb. Is close focus performance at 70mm going to be a significant proportion of your photos? If so you might also consider a prime in this focal length like the Sigma 70mm f/2.8 DG Macro Art or the very well regarded Sigma 105mm f/2.8 Dg Dn Macro Art.

i woudnt use the leica miami review as a reference, they sell leica lenses and would never post anything negative about the products they sell. The pana has proven to be a better lense then the sigma, starting by the fact that is parafocal and has almost no focus breathing. For video, the pana lens is way better, and for photo actually its supposed to be sharper then the sigma for just a bit, but i guess that depends on the reiew you use as a reference. 

Edited January 9 by Malabito

[PeterBoyadjian]

I have the 24-90, Panasonic 24-70 and sigma 24-70. 
 

24-90 is best followed by the Panasonic then sigma. I have not tested the leica 24-70. 
 

The sigma does flicker if the aperture changes on video. Leica and Panasonic lenses don’t do that. 

 

 

[goodbokeh]

8 hours ago, Malabito said:

i woudnt use the leica miami review as a reference, they sell leica lenses and would never post anything negative about the products they sell. The pana has proven to be a better lense then the sigma, starting by the fact that is parafocal and has almost no focus breathing. For video, the pana lens is way better, and for photo actually its supposed to be sharper then the sigma for just a bit, but i guess that depends on the reiew you use as a reference. 

Malabito, the context of the Leica Miami reference was a Red Dot video comparison for a number of 24-70 & 90 lenses when the Leica SL 24-70 was introduced. The Sigma 24-70, Leica 24-90, Leica 24-70, and Canon EF 24-70/2.8 II were compared. The Panasonic 24-70/2.8 was mentioned as simply not competitive with that group of lenses... 

Edited January 10 by goodbokeh
Typo

[Simone_DF]

3 hours ago, goodbokeh said:

Malabito, the context of the Leica Miami reference was a Red Dot video comparison for a number of 24-70 & 90 lenses when the Leica SL 24-70 was introduced. The Sigma 24-70, Leica 24-90, Leica 24-70, and Canon EF 24-70/2.8 II were compared. The Panasonic 24-70/2.8 was mentioned as simply not competitive with that group of lenses... 

Yeah, Leica reseller tells you that you should buy Leica lenses. Ok.

[BernardC]

4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Yeah, Leica reseller tells you that you should buy Leica lenses. Ok.

True, but that's an issue with almost all lens reviews these days. When an influencer begs you to "use my affiliate links," it's because they get a cut from every sale. They also often get free trips, gear, and special gifts, provided that they show the brand in the best possible light.

At least the Miami store is up-front about what they sell, and their reviews are very thorough by internet standards.

[agentsim]

I just watched their review, I have no reason to believe they aren't being upfront, but I do understand Malabito's point about their bias. An influencer getting paid through affiliate links is likely not as biased to one brand over another. Instead I imagine they would be more likely to want to call everything good, both to keep the free trips/gear/gifts coming and to encourage you to buy.

I was a bit disappointed that the Red Dot guys dismissed the Panasonic without even showing their work. The cynic in me immediately thought "well that's awfully convenient".

Unfortunately given the L-Mount's popularity compared to FE, RF and Z, it seems to be nigh on impossible to find careful, thorough reviews and even harder to find comparisons.

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[BernardC]

46 minutes ago, agentsim said:

An influencer getting paid through affiliate links is likely not as biased to one brand over another. Instead I imagine they would be more likely to want to call everything good, both to keep the free trips/gear/gifts coming and to encourage you to buy.

Yes, that's the usual script: tell your audience that the product is "great", "amazing", etc., go through the specs, show a few banal images. Repeat once or twice a week with a different products. Occasionally you can trash a piece of gear, but only if it's made by a brand that doesn't provide spiffs.

The only reviews that I still take seriously are on the cine side. CineD and NewsShooter are good, probably because they are made for working professionals.