M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[TeleElmar135mm]

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vor 32 Minuten schrieb Al Brown:

This scarf is not hand made.

You are right, my mistake - I'm no expert in knitting - but perhaps the scarf has "Chinese parts inside"

[IkarusJohn]

13 hours ago, lct said:

My point is to use SD Card Formatter to prevent such issues. Did work for me on all my cameras including the M11. Nobody has to use it. Just a tip i suggest and i've been suggesting since 2014 on the M240. Made me save 2 secs on startup times then and i got no freeze issues either.

I’ve been using SD card formatter since the SD card issues with the M9.

But, I think you know that wasn’t my point …

[lct]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’ve been using SD card formatter since the SD card issues with the M9. But, I think you know that wasn’t my point …

Not really i'm afraid but you don't need me to defend your point, i guess, so i prefer concentrating on mine with all due respect.

[IkarusJohn]

8 hours ago, lct said:

Not really i'm afraid but you don't need me to defend your point, i guess, so i prefer concentrating on mine with all due respect.

No, you’re right.  I don’t.  That’s not the point either.

Leica has a massive problem with the M11.  Sure, you and others seem to be able to use your cameras with zero problems, but “with all due respect” Leica still has a problem.  

[Smogg]

9 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

No, you’re right.  I don’t.  That’s not the point either.

Leica has a massive problem with the M11.  Sure, you and others seem to be able to use your cameras with zero problems, but “with all due respect” Leica still has a problem.  

Leica has no problems, we have problems😂

[lct]

25 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

[...] Leica has a massive problem with the M11.  Sure, you and others seem to be able to use your cameras with zero problems, but “with all due respect” Leica still has a problem.  

Some M9 and M240 bodies had freeze issues too if i remember well and M11 bodies are selling well as far as i know. Not sure if there is anything new under the sun then.

 

[IkarusJohn]

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So, there’s no problem?  Or there have always been problems and that’s just normal?

I’m beginning to think it’s the latter.  In my case, M9 & Monochrom (sensor corrosion), M Edition 60 (bricked), SL (bricked) & M10-D (electronics died).  So, I guess the M11 issues are just par for the course.  

We take photos - what do you really need?  Enough MP, good battery life, fine lenses and a simple interface which deals with what is necessary to take the photos you need.  In the case of the M system, that is within the constraints of the M mount and lenses.  I’d like the digital M to start from scratch - throw away all the nonsense, and get the basics right.  Then it might be worth the price.  Surely we have the technology to do less and do it really well?

[lct]

37 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

[...] I’d like the digital M to start from scratch - throw away all the nonsense, and get the basics right.  Then it might be worth the price.  Surely we have the technology to do less and do it really well? [...]

This is what you'd like but i'd like the opposite almost diametrally. To me an M camera must be modern and offer both RF and LV capabilities. The M11 is on the right track already. It just needs IBIS to access modernity. 

Edited March 30, 2024 by lct

[IkarusJohn]

23 minutes ago, lct said:

This is what you'd like but i'd like the opposite almost diametrally. To me an M camera must be modern and offer both RF and LV capabilities. The M11 is on the right track already. It just needs IBIS to access modernity. 

In the context of the M mount, I think the M11 is a wrong turn.  Meanwhile, the X2D is on the money.

[lct]

16 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

In the context of the M mount, I think the M11 is a wrong turn.  Meanwhile, the X2D is on the money.

As if you said that the M7 is a wrong turn while the Rolleiflex is on the money 20 years ago. Different formats, different sizes, different lenses, different cameras, seems like we will never agree on all that, Dear Colleague, but this discussion was pleasant as usual 🙂

Edited March 30, 2024 by lct

[IkarusJohn]

Separated by a common language. 

[M11 for me]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb letitz:

And nearly 2 1/2 years in, WE have the M11P and the M11 Monchrome and we are STILL talking about this

The interesting thing is that you do not even have an M11 😂

What is your motivation to fight here so strongly? In several threads at the same time!!

I want to add that of course you are fully free to post whatever you like. I just wonder . . .

[gotium]

3 hours ago, letitz said:

… The problem with the M11 is that it will never be resolved because I personally believe there is something inherently wrong with that camera. And nearly 2 1/2 years in, we have the M11P and the M11 Monchrome and we are STILL talking about this. I don't think it is an issue that an update can solve…

This is what would worry me buying an M11 variant now. I’d hate to be stuck with a $9k camera full of bugs that Leica refuses to acknowledge or fix, and having to explain that to some prospective buyer.

[brickftl]

On 3/14/2024 at 10:25 AM, jjesp said:

Of course, and they are likely looking into many other things. So let's hope it just is a firmware problem. But personally I think it is a hardware problem. They had the same problem with the old Q. They never fixed it though.

I'm betting it's a hardware issue. My Q3 bricked permanently at beginning of the year. After 5 weeks, NJ repair informed me that it couldn't be fixed without a part that was on indefinite backorder. And they had no loaners because all of them were out to other customers. After making a fuss up the line, I ended up getting a brand new Q3 which I sold before even opening the box. With the proceeds I bought a mint M10 silver plus the 50/1.4 lux asph, and they are flawless and perfect. I considered for a nano second getting the M11 instead of M10, but then decided I'm not going down that rabbit hole again. I'll wait for the M12.

[IkarusJohn]

15 hours ago, M11 for me said:

The interesting thing is that you do not even have an M11 😂

What is your motivation to fight here so strongly? In several threads at the same time!!

I want to add that of course you are fully free to post whatever you like. I just wonder . . .

I recall other M11 owners complaining that non-owners were criticising the M11 - it was much like people in the 1970s saying you shouldn’t criticise South Africa if you hadn’t been there.

My perspective is I have 10 or so M lenses, and I’ve owned 6 or so M cameras.  I currently have a silver chrome Monochrom (Henri, based on the M9); the M10-D; and a black paint M-A.  I am committed to the M system, so I watch each new model with interest from two perspectives - if I think I might upgrade (not something I usually do) and where Leica is taking the M system.  If Leica goes off in an odd direction, then it puts my commitment to the system at risk.  I will want to replace one or other of my digital Ms when they die and Leica can’t (won’t) fix them.

I didn’t like the M(240) and was vocal about it.  I don’t like the M11, and will say so (and have).  The fact that it seem plagued with problems is unfortunate, but not new.  In my view, ditching the metering off the shutter was a bad idea, as was cropping and different MPs.  It’s just all too complicated.  Much like the M10, I hope the M12 is a return to a simpler system.

In relation to faults, I’m a huge fan of Leica Customer Service - they can be slow and expensive, but they have almost always seen me right, for which I’m grateful (sadly, I’ve used them a lot).

BUT, Leica’s track record of acknowledging faults and fixing them proactively, providing replacement cameras and protecting their brand has been dreadful.  Since I first bought into Leica in 2009, pretty much every camera, with the exception of the SL(601) have been bananas - ripening over time.  It’s almost as if they hope no one will notice, or that the complainers will go away with time if sufficiently ignored.  It comes across as arrogant.

With the problems with the M11, under our consumer protection laws (and in other jursidictions) Leica would be forced to provide properly functioning replacement cameras at no cost or refunds.  It really is that simple.  A reputable company would have issued a recall to all buyers - that’s what VW and Audi have done with my cars in the past.

So, no, I don’t own an M11; I decided it wasn’t for me when it was released.  Even if Leica has made a profit (or despite it), their behaviour with this camera has been disgraceful.  They should have issued a recall as soon as the issue broke cover.  It gives me huge reservations about future investment in the M system.

Obviously, those who haven’t had issues will have a different view.  

[lct]

On 4/1/2024 at 5:16 AM, IkarusJohn said:

[...] Obviously, those who haven’t had issues will have a different view.

No doubt about this 😉 Others will quit complaining when the next firmware update is released as they always did since the M9 issues i guess but i did not buy the latter personally. Some M240 copies had problems too but mine had none so i only got good experiences with digital M's since my M8.2 in spite of a "coffee stain" which disappeared by itself i don't know why. Great cameras and great lenses anyway 👍

[brickftl]

20 hours ago, lct said:

No doubt about this 😉 Others will quit complaining when the next firmware update is released as they always did since the M9 issues i guess but i did not buy the latter personally. Some M240 copies had problems too but mine had none so i only got good experiences with digital M's since my M8.2 in spite of a "coffee stain" which disappeared by itself i don't know why. Great cameras and great lenses anyway 👍

you assume it's a firmware issue. I was told off the record by someone at Leica they know it's hardware. If it was firmware I'd expect the problem would have been fixed with a firmware update long ago.

[lct]

1 minute ago, brickftl said:

you assume it's a firmware issue. I was told off the record by someone at Leica they know it's hardware. If it was firmware I'd expect the problem would have been fixed with a firmware update long ago.

Seems like Leica is working on a firmware update right now. See:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/389223-case-collection-freezes-with-leica-m11-m11-m-m11-p-and-firmware-v-202/?do=findComment&comment=5156548

[Smogg]

This will become completely clear in April-May. If Leica gets the firmware right, then we can breathe out, but if not, then I imagine there will be lawsuits and articles on websites saying that Leica quality has been inflated by marketing efforts and is a thing of the past, since the flagship M series came out with fatal manufacturing defect.

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[Edax]

6 hours ago, lct said:

Seems like Leica is working on a firmware update right now. See:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/389223-case-collection-freezes-with-leica-m11-m11-m-m11-p-and-firmware-v-202/?do=findComment&comment=5156548

Until the new firmware is released, let’s hope they finish testing still this year, we can hold a contest "let the M11 freeze in the smallest number of pictures taken". I’ll start with a recipe which needs only two pictures taken:

1. set storage options to “DNG +JPG only on SD”
2. take 2 SD cards A & B, preferably the same size. Back them up, if needed, before this test
3. insert card A, format it in camera, take 1 picture and remove card A from camera
4. insert card B, format it in camera, and immediately remove card B from camera
5. insert card A again, and take 1 picture
6. switch the camera off and observe the red LED next to the cursor pad on the back. Freeze…

 

Afterwards, format card A, before using it again

Edited April 5, 2024 by Edax