I sold my m10, here is why…

[Olaf_ZG]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

About 6 months ago I bought a new m10, and today I sold it already. Stupid? May be, but obviously I was trying to find the perfect gear for me.

A Q2 will replace the m10 cause it is more versatile as a daily camera which I hoped the m10 would be for me.

 I do like the m10, but to me it is too slow, I miss moments which is probably due to my inexperience with the system.

BUT more strangely, having also an MM, to me the combination of M and b/w is perfect, to me, shooting with a b/w mindset is related to M and vice versa.

So the Q will be for colour, and the M for b/w, perfect match. 

[sinjun]

Not stupid - I'm sure you know what you're doing.

But I must say I don't understand the whole Q thing. One of the big attractions in the M is the ability to combine with a large range of lenses of different focal lengths and characters. You have this still with your MM but to be limited to one lens for colour would be too restrictive for me. Plus, investment in a fine lens which will become redundant with the camera seems a shame...

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[M Street Photographer]

Reorienting oneself is not wrong per se. You stay true to the rangefinder with the MM.
I can also understand your idea of combining Q2 and MM.
I made a kind of related decision:
An M10 R and a Sony RX1 RII.
The M10 R as a rangefinder, and my tendency to be able to adapt many old lenses, but also to use modern ones.
The RX1 RII, as an AF camera and with a 35 mm Sonnar, which draws uniquely. I don't like 28 mm, so no Q2.

Essentially you buy a fantastic 28 1.7 lens at "normal" Leica prices and get a camera for free.
But what interests me: why do you feel like you're missing out on things with the M10?
Is it the time you need to focus?
The RX1 RII doesn't have groundbreakingly fast AF either, but I don't miss anything with it. I don't miss anything with the M10 R either. The only thing I probably need is a glass to adjust the diopter, because I notice that I sometimes see too badly.

Edited November 26, 2022 by M Street Photographer

[Olaf_ZG]

1 hour ago, sinjun said:

Not stupid - I'm sure you know what you're doing.

But I must say I don't understand the whole Q thing. One of the big attractions in the M is the ability to combine with a large range of lenses of different focal lengths and characters. You have this still with your MM but to be limited to one lens for colour would be too restrictive for me. Plus, investment in a fine lens which will become redundant with the camera seems a shame...

For colour, I still have a SL, however this is not my daily cam.

[Olaf_ZG]

1 hour ago, M Street Photographer said:

But what interests me: why do you feel like you're missing out on things with the M10?
Is it the time you need to focus?
 

To me, it is too slow, I miss spontaneous images with friends as me focussing takes too long. For sure it is me who’s mistake it is, as I am most probably with too little experience. But it bothers me.

To me, a M is about creating/making images which needs time, and sometimes moments just need to be taken.

[Adam Bonn]

we're all different, but for me the more I use the M system (and it's only been 5 years) the less and less I care about shallow DOF and fast lenses (which is good for the bank account)

My most recent glass purchase was a 28 elmarit and I tend to zone focus this and it's fairly successful... my Zeiss 21/2.8 it's hard not to get everything in focus!!

I dreamed SO much of a 50 asph lux 5 years ago (could only afford a 50 cron), eventually I bought the lux (2 years later) and now it's my least used lens

For my €0.02 (worth far less) the M has become popularised with exotic fast glass like the noctilux, but for me and my largely street/urbex based personal work it works better with small lenses stopped down.

But there's little more useless than a camera we don't like or engage with so respect to the OP for realising this and moving on with life

[M Street Photographer]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Adam Bonn:

But there's little more useless than a camera we don't like or engage with so respect to the OP for realising this and moving on with life

May I please quote once : A Clockwork Orange "righty, right, Hi there, my little droogies." 😁

[MaticB]

I wish you all the best with new camera system. I went through the same thinking process a year ago, and added Q2 to my six years old M 240. Not, because I missed the shots, but to add smaller, agile and more versatile camera to the system. But then (I repeat this again and again), for the test I sent some files to the WhiteWall photo lab and ordered prints in original sizes... Although shooting techniques were undoubtfull - with tripod and using self shooter - the prints were nothing to compare with M 240 prints! I still don't know if there were some "to-me-unknown" manipulation of the files by the lab, or there were different printing techniques, but the quality simply wasn't good. Anyway, I bought M 10R and re-sale Q2 for APO Summicron 35 and keep M 240 with Summiluxes 50 and 28. Prints, even big ones, are excellent again. 

[rtai]

Leica products are meant to be purchased, sold, repurchased again, sold again while experiencing angst and regret. Don’t throw away the box!

[cesc]

Q2 will add macro and close focus photos something that and M is not meant to do, but after years of learning how to focus fast and M, is way better to focus than a AF camera. Also if you miss the shot you can blame yourself,  but if you miss the shot because an AF failure I get more upset ... Keep the MM for sure!!

[Knipsknecht]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Adam Bonn:

we're all different, but for me the more I use the M system (and it's only been 5 years) the less and less I care about shallow DOF and fast lenses (which is good for the bank account)

My most recent glass purchase was a 28 elmarit and I tend to zone focus this and it's fairly successful... my Zeiss 21/2.8 it's hard not to get everything in focus!!

I dreamed SO much of a 50 asph lux 5 years ago (could only afford a 50 cron), eventually I bought the lux (2 years later) and now it's my least used lens

For my €0.02 (worth far less) the M has become popularised with exotic fast glass like the noctilux, but for me and my largely street/urbex based personal work it works better with small lenses stopped down.

But there's little more useless than a camera we don't like or engage with so respect to the OP for realising this and moving on with life

Very interesting because I went almost exactly the same way. When I started my Leica voyage I dreamt of all the Summi- and Noctiluces. But now, being a hobbyist street and travel photographer, I use my lenses most of the time stopped down at f5.6 or even more often at f8. And even though I own a 50mm and a 35mm Lux I hardly use them.

And to be honest, from time to time I am thinking of a Q2, too😇.

[erniethemilk]

I love my M10-P but for me it’s like a classic Porsche for Sundays and special days. 
 

I use a Nikon Z7ii for most of what I shoot (woodland/landscape) with a zoom lens and for me it’s imperious (but boring to use) & for more casual, everyday and travel I have a Fuji X100v which is great to throw about and not worry too much about being banged, rubbed or even stolen!  
 

But of all the cameras I do use it’s the M10-P and all it’s foibles that has my heart… I’d be hard pressed to move it on. 

[twogun]

I can relate to the OP. In my case, my work is mainly street photography in busy city streets, bus stations, railway stations  anywhere there is a high foot traffic. Speed is critical to photograph certain anticipated scenes like hand gestures or someone lifting their hand to  light a cigarette in a crowd etc etc  These scenes can occur in a fraction of a second and the camera wake up time and buffer loading speed is critical not to miss these shots.  Using film m mody is the fastest to accomplish this since there is no delay. Other smaller cameras like the Ricoh GR 2/3 are amazingly fast and easy to move around - same with the Leica Q2 -

With an M body you have to be very intentional and deliberate. I have an M9 and pull it out when I have a slower paced environment or for portraits but in places with crowds and fast moving subjects - it's either the GR or the Q2 that gets used. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by twogun

[evikne]

Everything is fine as long as you have kept at least one M. 😉 And I am sure your MM will make a great team with your 50mm Sonnar. 

[LocalHero1953]

 

3 hours ago, hammyusr said:

Hmm. Interesting. I’ve never had a problem capturing that. Works much like a film camera really. I think it’s the bad habits from mirrorless and the resistance to get away from it. Not being deliberate and intentional with photos anymore. Just sort of walk around and identify things and pull the camera out of your pocket and snap. 

if you’re involved with the environment you don’t need to wait for the M to wake up. It’s already awake. You’re already there ready for the shot. Or you can turn sleep off  

I understand most people don’t do it this way however. So a more casual mirrorless camera is better. Even just your phone would be best. 

Long time M user here - since a M3 in 1981 through to the M240 - no inherited mirrorless bad habits . I got the SL when it launched, and realised that I could use it more quickly, especially where people are involved. I now also have a Q2. (My only 'M' is now a M4).

Some people say the M is quicker than mirrorless; some say it is a return to thoughtful 'slow photography'; some say the M is for more deliberative photography. I say the camera that gets out of the way and lets you take the photograph you want is the best one.

I almost never use a lens longer than 50mm for travel, street, casual and social use, so a Q2 is ideal - no point, for that use, in having a M (no OIS, no weatherproofing, no silent shutter, no AF). If I took different types of photograph I might choose a M - or smartphone, or Fuji, or Sony.

When I want to slow down I get out the Gandolfi (see my avatar). I allow half an hour minimum for a shot. Using an M is just mindless photography in comparison.

[LocalHero1953]

10 minutes ago, hammyusr said:

I’m not sure what any of this means. Just use whatever works for you. If you need OIS and AF to take pictures of people then an M isn’t for you. I have no problems doing it.

🙂

[JoshuaRothman]

I used the Q2 for a long time and now use M cameras. I love both systems and sometimes miss the Q2 that I sold. On my film and digital Ms, I use 28/35/50/75—the Q2's exact cropping range. So for me, the trade-offs are simple:

• The Q2 is ultra-convenient, because you don't have to carry different lenses.
• The M is more visually interesting, because you can use different lenses that render differently.

There are many operational differences between the cameras, but for me what matters most is the rendering. The upside of the Q2—one lens, different focal lengths through cropping—is also its downside, because the lens has a fixed character. It's a modern, ultra-detailed look, and all your photos look that way no matter how you crop them. On the M system, you can use lenses with different designs to achieve different results. But then you're also either confined to one focal length or forced to carry multiple lenses. It's a trade-off: convenience and consistency vs. inconvenience and variability.

For the moment, I think I'm happiest with a film and digital M kit built around a number of different lenses with different renderings. But I do often miss the simplicity and convenience of the Q2. I moved on from it because, after shooting with it for a year, I got bored of the consistent look of the pictures. I wanted to try new lenses with new looks. Now, when I leave the house with an M10 or M4-P, I'm cursed to decide which lens(es) to bring, and then must switch them while out and about.

When I'm traveling, I sometimes wish I had the all-in-one power of the Q2. But I can't afford to own both systems. I'd have to sell my M10 to get back into the Q2. I've been asking myself whether the M10-R would give me some of that Q2 flexibility: mount a good 35mm lens and then just crop for a 50. That may be my sweet spot.

The bottom line is that there's no perfect system, no final kit. You just have to follow your own interests and needs and see what you get. Q or M, they're both fantastic. Be confident in your choices!

Edited November 28, 2022 by JoshuaRothman

[JoshuaRothman]

10 minutes ago, hammyusr said:

Yea. It’s great. So many lenses. So many looks. I only have 2 lenses so I never have this problem. The megapixels really help. I don’t need 28-35-50-75.

Which lenses?

28/50 is my go-to kit most days, with one lens on the camera and another in the pocket....

[Olaf_ZG]

12 hours ago, evikne said:

Everything is fine as long as you have kept at least one M. 😉 And I am sure your MM will make a great team with your 50mm Sonnar. 

The MM plus Sonnar will stay, unless I upgrade for a m10m and the v3.

For me, M equals b/w, and for colour I will have other options. Couldn’t be more happy with this discovery… (which is ofcourse totally personal).

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[northtosouth]

We have all become accustomed to speed. I started with MF and film in the 70s and now I'm a little mystified how anyone got anything useable back then, then I remember another artifact of the 20th century - the lab bill. My room mate in University shot for a newspaper, he would go to a Rams game (L,A.) with two bricks of film and shoot all of it. Working fast with film and MF used a lot of film. I get a little amused when I find I'm getting frustrated with the slowness of working with an RF camera, evidently I've been conditioned by using AF for the last 20 years.

Q2 is great for working fast, makes my M's feel clunky sometimes.