Is Leica upping their game in the world of film?

[kivis]

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Here we go:

https://leicarumors.com/2022/09/16/breaking-leica-will-bring-back-to-life-the-m6-film-camera.aspx/

[Herr Barnack]

On 9/17/2022 at 3:57 PM, adan said:

The contradiction (and humor), for me, lies in what characteristics Leica is marketing, and to meet which expectations.

It used to be "we are the peak of perfection," now it's "we can do 'grunge' just like everyone else."

Not that I consider film to be especially grungy and imperfect, or digital to be especially clean and perfect. They each have weaknesses and strengths.

I think what the Leica marketing folk were trying promote is the wabi-sabi aspect of film based photography.  From Wikipedia -

Quote

"In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘寂) is a world view centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of appreciating beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete" in nature [and in film photography]. It is prevalent throughout all forms of Japanese art [and in film photography]."

Wabi-sabi is a distinctly Japanese concept and is not very German; perhaps that is why they decided to advance their own decidedly imperfect verbiage in describing their intent.

As for grunge, is that even a thing any more?  If it is, I'm going to have to shave off my goatee as I refuse to participate in anything that is supposedly "trendy."

Edited September 18, 2022 by Herr Barnack

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[madNbad]

5 hours ago, Huss said:

F2 is a superb match for the M3.  I had the original F, and that is much clunkier/awkward (esp shutter button placement).

F2 is built to an amazing quality level and it is shocking how cheap they are right now.  The crappy (it is crappy - in its day it was the cheapest entry level Pentax) K1000 often goes for more!  Imagine that, the bottom of the rung 35mm slr is now worth more than the top of the heap pro 35mm slr!

Anyway, take advantage of that while you can!

 

 

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Post about how to use an F2. Maybe even how to load it. Wear a funky thrift store hat and a t-shirt with either a brand of film or camera. Extra points for a t-shirt with a T-Rex holding a Leica. Watch the price of F2s skyrocket.

Just before I sold the last of my Nikon gear, I had a 55 1.2 like the one on your F2. When I had it serviced, the technician couldn't figure out what was gumming up the helicoil threads. She figured out it was sand. It was a really sweet lens.

[Huss]

I was thinking of wearing a Pabst Blue Ribbon t-shirt.  That will really boost my cred.

[John Robinson]

10 hours ago, logan2z said:

But the F2 seems to be a keeper as it will last forever.

It is true that the F2 is incredibly well-built and robust but can go wrong, needing CLA (in the UK, that can add GBP200 or so to the price).  The most likely fault is that the photomic head (light meter) fails and then you have a big clunky viewfinder that adds nothing to the experience and find yourself looking for a non-photomic head.  Strangely, it is easier to find an F with such a head and if you are lucky, one in semi-mint condition because the F2 rapidly overtook it for various reasons.  The other good thing about Nikons?  Their flange-distance is so close to the Leica R-series, they can take R lenses.

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[Phil_P]

Another thumbs up for the F2, it is an all mechanical marvel and a nice complement to an M.  

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[colint544]

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Well, since we've deviated briefly into a bit of appreciation for the F2 - and the thread hasn't so far been locked for it - I'll humbly, and quickly add a wee photo of mine. It feels like an SLR version of a classic Wetzlar Leica, especially with the plain prism. No electronics, no batteries. Lovely. 

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[atournas]

15 minutes ago, colint544 said:

Well, since we've deviated briefly into a bit of appreciation for the F2 - and the thread hasn't so far been locked for it [...]

Yeah, interesting thread with the Nikon brand name appearing 'democratically' along with Leica's. A plus point for the moderators who are showing wise tolerance. Much appreciated! Although, Leica M is a different beast and no comparison can be strongly rooted. 

But nice attitude, anyway. 

[colint544]

8 minutes ago, atournas said:

Yeah, interesting thread with the Nikon brand name appearing 'democratically' along with Leica's. A plus point for the moderators who are showing wise tolerance. Much appreciated! Although, Leica M is a different beast and no comparison can be strongly rooted. 

But nice attitude, anyway. 

I was trying to link it to Leica so that our slight detour might be benignly overlooked by the moderator, before we return to all things Leica.

[atournas]

4 hours ago, John Robinson said:

[...] The other good thing about Nikons?  Their flange-distance is so close to the Leica R-series, they can take R lenses.

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I think that remark of R lenses on F bodies has somehow put some weight to the discussion, don't you think?

[colint544]

1 minute ago, atournas said:

I think that remark of R lenses on F bodies has somehow put some weight to the discussion, don't you think?

Absolutely it has - most relevant.

[earleygallery]

On 9/17/2022 at 8:57 PM, adan said:

The contradiction (and humor), for me, lies in what characteristics Leica is marketing, and to meet which expectations.

It used to be "we are the peak of perfection," now it's "we can do 'grunge' just like everyone else."

Not that I consider film to be especially grungy and imperfect, or digital to be especially clean and perfect. They each have weaknesses and strengths.

I think Leica have caught onto the fact that a lot of the 'Lomo' crowd have plenty of disposable income and enjoy taking photos with film cameras.......

 

[earleygallery]

I bought an F2 about 10 years ago (when everyone was saying film is dead) for £99 from a central London dealer! I've hardly used it, but one time when I was out shooting, a guy commented one my 'nice Leica'.

I must give it run out again especially as I picked up a 50 1.4 I have yet to use on it!

Who said too many cameras.........

[madNbad]

The thread has wandered a bit because a different thread has nineteen pages of speculation about a “new” Leica only to discover it won’t really be anything new. As often happens, there is a comment in a post that takes on a life of its own. The original comment about how a camera which was designed and built for daily professional use now sells for half the price of a plastic vacation camera that offers limited controls. I’ve owned a lot of Nikons, mostly the F and a whole lot of Nikkormats. They’re great cameras and good lenses but when I made the decision to pare down my equipment, the Nikons were sold and the Leica stayed.

[BradS]

On 9/17/2022 at 11:00 AM, hdmesa said:

Hype sells.....

mmmmm, maybe that works for some but to me, the hype is a definite turn off. I abhor it. I see it for what it is, and it is nauseating.

Edited September 19, 2022 by BradS

[Huss]

1 hour ago, BradS said:

mmmmm, maybe that works for some but to me, the hype is a definite turn off. I abhor it. I see it for what it is, and it is nauseating.

Hype happens, whether you like it or not.  Without hype, no companies would exist.

[John Robinson]

18 hours ago, madNbad said:

when I made the decision to pare down my equipment, the Nikons were sold and the Leica stayed

I am sure many had the same experience.  I lost count of how many F2, F3 and F4 alongside various digital models and Nikkors I dumped once I had an M2, M6TTL, M8, M9 and latterly an M3 in my hands.  What is interesting is how this thread has drifted onto a mention of the "classic" Nikons (F and F2) and why that is in the context of the discussion about Leica's recent advertising blitz (I had the same "#filmisnotdead" e-mail) and the various discussions about whether Leica might release a new film camera.

Some film photographers prioritise brilliant design, mechanical excellence and sustainability (availability of servicing and repair) over the convenience of AE, motor drive etc.  From this point of view, the early Ms are remarkable (a 60-year-old camera that can still be serviced and produces excellent results, even with modern lenses) and the closest comparison in the SLR line is the Nikon F (mine dates from 1965) or the F2 (about 1971).

Given that Leica already has the MA (descendent of the M3/M2) and the MP (descendent of the M6) but dropped the M7 (AE, battery-dependent) it is hard to see how they could improve their offering.

It is not a mystery why Leica ceased production of its R-series line of cameras but there is a lesson in how they developed.  From R3 to R9 it was a line of battery-dependent cameras with increasingly complex electronic internals but somewhere in the middle dropped the R6 and R6.2.  I have the R6.2 and can't help noticing how similar it is in use to the M6 TTL (similar red-dot to indicate good exposure) with some extra features (1/2000th, choice of spot or scene average metering) but without the drawback of battery-dependence as a trade-off for no AE.  Looking for a way of taking pictures on film using R-series lenses, these are the models that offer the best chance of sustainability.  (There are plenty of other Rs around at reasonable prices but if they break down the repair options are limited.)

Perhaps Leica will surprise us all and bring back an R-mount film camera?  That, it seems to me, is where there is a genuine gap in the market.  Meanwhile, the option to Leitax an R-lens and put it on a Nikon F or F2 is a very reasonable route to film photography using R lenses on a purely mechanical body.

[Al Brown]

As you (and everybody) is mentioning classic Nikons - the biggest competition to Leica rangefinders at some point in history, perhaps as big as to push Leica M into the verge of product line termination - the classic Canons are all the rage these days. Not the bodies (the AE-1 & co. have seen a huge hipster revival though, reflecting on their price), but the lenses - the inexplicable phenomenon of several FD ASPH lenses price explosion into astronomical heights. It has partly to do with enormous recent popularity of (YouTube induced) Canon K35 lenses and their rendering, which apparently shared the glass with some of the better FD ASPH lenses (those K35 sets are virtually inobtainable for mere mortals). Canon K35 have been used in now classic movies like Aliens and Barry Lyndon and have a wonderful 70's rendering DNA, plus they cover full frame 35mm/VIstaVision. One of the shared lenses is the 24mm S.S.C. ASPH , selling at a Wetzlar Camera Auction right now for the starting price of 6000 euros, only to reach the more realistical price of about 15.000 euros (plus premium). Canon FD N 14/2.8L is reaching 10.000 euros used as I type this. It's just incredible.

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[250swb]

The link between the Leica's and Nikons is obviously beauty and tactile quality, and they sit so well together as examples of brilliant design and efficiency. However sometimes for whatever reason on the LUF forum people just don't get to see enough Nikon's so I'll add three more. All first year production, L to R an F2, an F, and a Nikkormat FT.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Matlock]

12 minutes ago, 250swb said:

The link between the Leica's and Nikons is obviously beauty and tactile quality, and they sit so well together as examples of brilliant design and efficiency. However sometimes for whatever reason on the LUF forum people just don't get to see enough Nikon's so I'll add three more. All first year production, L to R an F2, an F, and a Nikkormat FT.

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True, but Leicas can have other friends you know. 🙂

Edited September 20, 2022 by Matlock