Is Leica upping their game in the world of film?

[kivis]

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Look what just showed up at Leica's web site. Are we back in 1980? Anyway a good sign for us film lovers.

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/film

[spydrxx]

Sell the sizzle!😁

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Danner]

I like that :-)

[rfunnell]

Wouldn't mind a new film body.

 

[johnwolf]

Warms my heart to see this. Wish other companies would follow. 

[AvidArchRivals]

Not interested if it's an m6. Would rather stick with an M-A or MP.

[RayD28]

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Interesting.  Wetting people's appetite for a new film camera?

1.  Doesn't mention new camera introduction.

2. The link to pre-owned mentions used cameras at Leica stores and warranties for up to two years.  

3. Film stocks mentioned are Kodak, Fuji, and Cinestill.  No love for Ilford.

Must admit it makes want to grab the M3 and shoot a roll.  

[adan]

Not to criticize the idea of promoting film and film cameras.

But it does make me laugh that Leica has switched from promoting the MP as standing for "Mechanical Perfection" to - "The Beauty of Imperfection."

Peter Karbe noted in an interview that Leica's lens designers have always studied all Leica's older ideas (Mandler, Berek) when coming up with new ones.

Apparently that is not the procedure for their marketing folks.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Not to criticize the idea of promoting film and film cameras.

But it does make me laugh that Leica has switched from promoting the MP as standing for "Mechanical Perfection" to - "The Beauty of Imperfection."

Peter Karbe noted in an interview that Leica's lens designers have always studied all Leica's older ideas (Mandler, Berek) when coming up with new ones.

Apparently that is not the procedure for their marketing folks.

I don't see the contradiction.  'Mechanical Perfection' refers to the camera (shutter, film transport, etc) while  'Imperfection' refers to the film itself (grain, etc). 

[colint544]

I was on a bus in Edinburgh back in July, during the festival. It was packed with tourists. Just in my immediate vicinity, I counted two Canon AE-1s, and a Canon AV-1. Got off the bus at at the Mound, and a guy walked past with a Leica M5 in his hand.

In my own city of Glasgow, I go down Byres Road, past young men and women with chrome-topped SLRs from the 1970's around their necks, and into Snappy Snaps to get my occasional roll of Portra 400 developed. I say 'into', but as often as not I have to join a queue on the street just to get into the shop. There are always people in the queue handing in, or collecting, film. The guy in the back, who operates the Noritsu machine, is barely visible through all the strips of 120 and 35mm film hanging up around him. The shop rarely has Portra 160 and 400. It comes in, and sells out almost immediately.

Something is happening. It doesn't feel like a blip any more. Prices of film cameras have gone crazy. Plastic point-and-shoots from the 1990's that should really sell for £20 or £30 are going for £400+. Film is back. Leica seem in a good position to capitalise on that. Even the above announcement stirs the pot of enthusiasm for film.

Incidentally, the film camera bargain of the moment looks like the Nikon F2. That thing is built and designed at least as well as any Leica M, and you can currently get one for less than the price of a plastic Olympus MJU2 point and shoot. 

[BradS]

"....In the case of a photo on film, the result is always an original. Unique and exclusive, with an aura that none can resist ...."

Good grief. The hype is off-the-rails in that special Leica way.

Edited September 17, 2022 by BradS

[hdmesa]

26 minutes ago, BradS said:

"....In the case of a photo on film, the result is always an original. Unique and exclusive, with an aura that none can resist ...."

Good grief. The hype is off-the-rails in that special Leica way.

Hype sells. But the "aura" for me is to start with digital to begin with since most film ends up digitized anyway. If Lightroom had the film grain finesse that Capture One has, we'd have fewer in search of that analog look. CineStill 800 is one of the harder film looks to emulate with digital, but recently Mastin Labs added a CineStill 800 film profile/style for LR/C1, complimented with an included Photoshop action to add the halation.

If there is an allure to shooting film, it's not the look. For me, it's about the experience of shooting it.

[graphlex]

39 minutes ago, BradS said:

"....In the case of a photo on film, the result is always an original. Unique and exclusive, with an aura that none can resist ...."

Good grief. The hype is off-the-rails in that special Leica way.

The words are mined from Walter Benjamin, but his meaning is reversed.

[LocalHero1953]

10 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Hype sells. But the "aura" for me is to start with digital to begin with since most film ends up digitized anyway. If Lightroom had the film grain finesse that Capture One has, we'd have fewer in search of that analog look. CineStill 800 is one of the harder film looks to emulate with digital, but recently Mastin Labs added a CineStill 800 film profile/style for LR/C1, complimented with an included Photoshop action to add the halation.

If there is an allure to shooting film, it's not the look. For me, it's about the experience of shooting it.

For me it is entirely about the look, in two specific aspects:

• Shooting an original negative, compared to a digital positive, means that the inverted image shows much better tonal variation in highlights. This is most visible in skies, where it takes quite a bit of effort to blow highlights. Digital handles shadows better, but blown highlights are a common problem. 
• Digital sensors respond most strongly to the red end of the spectrum; film responds most strongly to the blue end.

This is not to say that one is better than the other. But recognising how the different media respond helps you choose the right one for what you are trying to achieve. FWIW I use both, with equal enjoyment.

[hdmesa]

29 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

For me it is entirely about the look, in two specific aspects:

• Shooting an original negative, compared to a digital positive, means that the inverted image shows much better tonal variation in highlights. This is most visible in skies, where it takes quite a bit of effort to blow highlights. Digital handles shadows better, but blown highlights are a common problem. 
• Digital sensors respond most strongly to the red end of the spectrum; film responds most strongly to the blue end.

This is not to say that one is better than the other. But recognising how the different media respond helps you choose the right one for what you are trying to achieve. FWIW I use both, with equal enjoyment.

CMOS digital cameras have two green channels, one red, one blue. Film color response varies by stock. Highlight detail and tonality is exquisite on the latest BSI sensors that I have owned, M11 and GFX 100S – never a blown a highlight even with ETTR. More often with digital the problem is underexposing the image, which is often what we get when following the meter (2nd image below shows how much more exposure the image could have handled without blowing the highlights). To get the best out of film, you need a very competent lab, or you have to do it yourself – many labs scan for the shadows and completely #&@! up the highlights. But you obviously have figured that part out since you shoot film and enjoy it

 

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Edited September 17, 2022 by hdmesa

[LocalHero1953]

I agree it is more complicated than the simple factors I mentioned. My point was that there are objective differences in the response of digital sensors and film, and although one can definitely enjoy the experience of shooting film (I do), there are visible differences in output. 

As for BSI sensors, I have the SL2-S and I can certainly blow highlights if I'm not careful! More easily than with film. But what I notice is that skies with clouds look more natural on film, because of the better highlight gradation, even if the digital skies are not blown.

Edited September 17, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[adan]

4 hours ago, logan2z said:

I don't see the contradiction.  'Mechanical Perfection' refers to the camera (shutter, film transport, etc) while  'Imperfection' refers to the film itself (grain, etc). 

The contradiction (and humor), for me, lies in what characteristics Leica is marketing, and to meet which expectations.

It used to be "we are the peak of perfection," now it's "we can do 'grunge' just like everyone else."

Not that I consider film to be especially grungy and imperfect, or digital to be especially clean and perfect. They each have weaknesses and strengths.

[Al Brown]

We have discussed this very newsletter they sent out and analog website page in another topic already twice, if I remember correctly.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Al Brown

[andrew01]

3 hours ago, colint544 said:

I was on a bus in Edinburgh back in July, during the festival. It was packed with tourists. Just in my immediate vicinity, I counted two Canon AE-1s, and a Canon AV-1. Got off the bus at at the Mound, and a guy walked past with a Leica M5 in his hand.

In my own city of Glasgow, I go down Byres Road, past young men and women with chrome-topped SLRs from the 1970's around their necks, and into Snappy Snaps to get my occasional roll of Portra 400 developed. I say 'into', but as often as not I have to join a queue on the street just to get into the shop. There are always people in the queue handing in, or collecting, film. The guy in the back, who operates the Noritsu machine, is barely visible through all the strips of 120 and 35mm film hanging up around him. The shop rarely has Portra 160 and 400. It comes in, and sells out almost immediately.

Something is happening. It doesn't feel like a blip any more. Prices of film cameras have gone crazy. Plastic point-and-shoots from the 1990's that should really sell for £20 or £30 are going for £400+. Film is back. Leica seem in a good position to capitalise on that. Even the above announcement stirs the pot of enthusiasm for film.

Incidentally, the film camera bargain of the moment looks like the Nikon F2. That thing is built and designed at least as well as any Leica M, and you can currently get one for less than the price of a plastic Olympus MJU2 point and shoot. 

F2’s are indeed awesome, especially after a fresh service from Sover Wong (2 year waiting list).  Not exactly a bargain at around £800 after servicing, but a lot cheaper than an M6!

I think the bargains of the Nikon range are the Nikkormats.  These have the superb build quality very close to F2 league and are arguably better balanced (F2 is a bit top heavy with the metering prisms).  The much hyped FM2 is a big drop down in build quality.

For a plastic point and shoot, the best bargain is actually an SLR.  The Canon EOS cameras from the end of the film era can be had for £20-£40.  Add a 40mm pancake lens and you have a superb point and shoot with lightning fast AF and 35 zone evaluative metering.

 

 

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[logan2z]

11 minutes ago, andrew01 said:

I think the bargains of the Nikon range are the Nikkormats.  These have the superb build quality very close to F2 league 

I've never held an F2 so have no point of comparison, but I have a Nikkormat FT3 and it is an absolute tank.  I can't imagine the F2 being built much better.