My new M11 is bricked... Leica Spain

[hdmesa]

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On 8/4/2022 at 1:34 AM, Antonio Russell said:

Unfortunately my M11, has become unresponsive after just 30 days. Red LED stays on when you turn on the camera but the display dos not come on and the camera is not responsive... I am obvously very disappointed given the cost of the camera that this should happend. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? I have contacted Leica Spain and they are not helpfull (the suggest sending the camera to Weltzat for 1 month!!). I beleive that if they cannot replace the camera then they should at least provide a refund. 

 

Sorry this happened to you. I've been asking those with bricked M11s if they were charging the battery in camera – were you charging it this way? It won't mean that's the problem, but trying to see if it's a commonality.

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[Antonio Russell]

8 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Sorry this happened to you. I've been asking those with bricked M11s if they were charging the battery in camera – were you charging it this way? It won't mean that's the problem, but trying to see if it's a commonality.

Thanks. And thanks for asking. In response to your question, I normally charge in the battery charger.

 

[jakontil]

10 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Sorry this happened to you. I've been asking those with bricked M11s if they were charging the battery in camera – were you charging it this way? It won't mean that's the problem, but trying to see if it's a commonality.

Hi hdmesa, mind you that the M11 antonio had was still giving LED red stay on, while the other dead M11 seemed rather complete dead, but i might be wrong 

[Mahesh]

Ouch...reports such as these are stopping me from buying an M11. I have been really ready to buy any day! I haven't got an M at the moment, maybe I will just buy a second-hand M240 or 10.

[Guest]

This is why I don’t buy new electronics or cars in first year of production. Seems more and more companies are using their customers to do their final product testing. 

[frame-it]

3 minutes ago, OThomas said:

This is why I don’t buy new electronics or cars in first year of production. Seems more and more companies are using their customers to do their final product testing. 

yep, because of their delayed releases!

[M11 for me]

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb Mahesh:

Ouch...reports such as these are stopping me from buying an M11. I have been really ready to buy any day! I haven't got an M at the moment, maybe I will just buy a second-hand M240 or 10.

No @Mahesh; that would be overreacting. You certainly can assume that most M11 out here are working as they should. Of course its necessary that such problems come up and are discussed here in the forum (and just the more when the rsponsible in Spain do not react properly). But its a bad idea to go for an older model when you have the cash to go for M11. Check all the posts from very satisfied users. We are at firmware 1.5.0.1 (what a figure !!) and most issues should be adressed now. And another FW version is expected in fall.

[M11 for me]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb OThomas:

Seems more and more companies are using their customers to do their final product testing

That could be deadly. Which car manufacturer could afford to do that that? 

I had one of the first M11 on the market. It was January this year. Yes, there were a few things that were annoying. But I can not say that I was used as test consumer by Leica. Quite soon came 1.0.4.0 by the way.

[Guest]

@M11 for me I didn’t say they are leaving consumers to do their safety testing, I mean their final release testing.

I used to work in a mainframe software environment and we called it “production testing”. Basically the product was 98 - 99% finished, but with a few flaws yet to be found and fixed. It was an accepted method of product release, but it certainly p’d off the users.

Edited August 6, 2022 by OThomas

[M11 for me]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb OThomas:

@M11 for me I didn’t say they are leaving consumers to do their safety testing, I mean their final release testing.

I used to work in a mainframe software environment and we called it “production testing”. Basically the product was 98 - 99% finished, but with a few flaws yet to be found and fixed. It was an accepted method of product release, but it certainly p’d off the users.

No problem. I just wanted to motivate you for the M11 🤫. Its a good product. Its great. Its the best ever. It has tiny little bugs.

[M11 for me]

Gerade eben schrieb M11 for me:

It has tiny little bugs

Sometime the whole M11 gets bricked. Too sad. But not all are like that

[Guest]

@M11 for me no need for motivation, I picked up an M10-R in October ‘21 and an M4-P in May this year. I’m very happy with both and at the moment have no intention of upgrading either  

I can understand not all M11s are having issues, but the numerous reports are off putting for those new to Leica as a brand.

Edited August 6, 2022 by OThomas

[LocalHero1953]

Yes, you could buy a M10 or M240, to avoid the teething problems of the M11. Even better, go back to the tried and tested M9.....oh, wait.

In the end, balance the risk that something will go wrong with a new M11 against those improvements the M11 brings that you will miss out on. Which do you want more?

[elmars]

vor einer Stunde schrieb OThomas:

I didn’t say they are leaving consumers to do their safety testing, I mean their final release testing.

I have been a betatester for several M Leicas. This means the hardware is ready, producing the hardware has started and about 10 to 15 normal users (aside from the Leica folks including some dealers) get a camera to check the final software. This is about finding bugs and fine tuning of the white balance.

Normally the firmware is very, very stable, when the camera gets released. The M11 was a bit different, because the firmware is all new so far I know.

So I would say: Leica is not leaving the final release testing to their customers.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, elmars said:

So I would say: Leica is not leaving the final release testing to their customers.

@elmars So why are there numerous reports of M11s being bricked? This isn’t a minor flaw this is a major flaw that should’ve been picked up in the many hours/days/months of pre release product testing.

M11 customers are finding the issues, so by definition they ARE the final testers. I’m not ranting, or trying not to, but it’s the truth. No matter how much testing the software/hardware goes through the final user will always find issues that weren’t picked up.

Edited August 6, 2022 by OThomas

[lct]

Each new camera has teething problems. Been following launches of M8, M9, M10, M11 and i was a beta tester for a M240 firmware. Nothing new under the sun. 

[elmars]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb OThomas:

@elmars So why are there numerous reports of M11s being bricked? This isn’t a minor flaw this is a major flaw that should’ve been picked up in the many hours/days/months of pre release product testing.

M11 customers are finding the issues, so by definition they ARE the final testers. I’m not ranting, or trying not to, but it’s the truth. No matter how much testing the software/hardware goes through the final user will always find issues that weren’t picked up.

If You put it this way You are right. But is this fair? I am not a software expert, but I read often there is no (!) software without faults.

What I tried to say: Leica tries to finalize the firmware as good as possible.What should they do different from what I described? Produce thousands of prototypes and let them be tested for months from even more testers?

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, OThomas said:

@elmars So why are there numerous reports of M11s being bricked? This isn’t a minor flaw this is a major flaw that should’ve been picked up in the many hours/days/months of pre release product testing.

M11 customers are finding the issues, so by definition they ARE the final testers. I’m not ranting, or trying not to, but it’s the truth. No matter how much testing the software/hardware goes through the final user will always find issues that weren’t picked up.

Certain component failures occur only after prolonged use. For example, X1D had such an issue. We do not know the percentage of bricked M11s nor whether it is a hardware or software issue.
The best "prevention" is to deal with a reputable AD and get their M11s replaced ASAP.

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[jakontil]

8 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Certain component failures occur only after prolonged use. For example, X1D had such an issue. We do not know the percentage of bricked M11s nor whether it is a hardware or software issue.
The best "prevention" is to deal with a reputable AD and get their M11s replaced ASAP.

yep exactly, that's the key, reputable dealer.. so anything goes wrong, well at least no money was flushed down the toilet

there's always a risk 

[Guest]

@LocalHero1953 @elmars @lct @SrMi im not saying the M11 is a piece of cr@p, far from it, it looks an amazing piece of kit. It’s just my personal opinion and preference not to buy in 1st year of manufacture, which, again in my opinion, is when most of the issues with new products occur.

Edited August 6, 2022 by OThomas