50mm dilemma: 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux vs 50mm f/2 APO Summicron

[rramesh]

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Since all your 50mm lenses will take great photos and you are undecided between a f/0.95 and f/2, I would read you as a collector of lenses.

Your criteria should be along these lines - condition, rarity, perceived value, likely appreciation, provenance. And be watchful of recessionary trends.

Edited July 30, 2022 by rramesh

[Drmat]

Any decision on this?  You can't leave us in suspense.  Whichever you get, I will be curious to know how you feel about it relative to the other lenses.  I currently have the opposite kit of you (0.95 + APO).

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[Pierre68]

On 7/20/2022 at 2:36 PM, Drmat said:

I have both lenses.  They are fantastic.  However, given what you already have, my advice is save the money.  If you must have something, then go on a trip or put yourself in a position to take more photos.  The lenses you have will already give you the coverage you need in ease of use, resolution, character, low light capability, etc.

for the time being I followed the advice to keep the money... And bought a SL2-S Kit with the Vario-Elmarit 24-70mm f/ 2.8 😉 To try something new. But the itch for the Noctilux persists and I think I will go for it if the reseller makes me a good price.

[Drmat]

8 hours ago, Pierre68 said:

for the time being I followed the advice to keep the money... And bought a SL2-S Kit with the Vario-Elmarit 24-70mm f/ 2.8 😉 To try something new. But the itch for the Noctilux persists and I think I will go for it if the reseller makes me a good price.

i think you will get more use out of the SL2-S kit.  You already have a really nice noctiux and if you opt for the 0.95 as well, it will pair nicely with both cameras.

[jakontil]

On 7/30/2022 at 9:53 PM, Pierre68 said:

for the time being I followed the advice to keep the money... And bought a SL2-S Kit with the Vario-Elmarit 24-70mm f/ 2.8 😉 To try something new. But the itch for the Noctilux persists and I think I will go for it if the reseller makes me a good price.

It’s the 0.95

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[52K]

On 7/26/2022 at 6:42 PM, pedaes said:

So  not very helpful to OP 🤯

You take one partial sentence and quote it out of context, are you just being a dick for the sake of it or what?

[pedaes]

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20 minutes ago, 52K said:

You take one partial sentence and quote it out of context, are you just being a dick for the sake of it or what?

 

It is a thread about M lenses in the M Lenses sub-forum. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by pedaes

[IkarusJohn]

On 7/27/2022 at 2:56 AM, 52K said:

It's very sharp but if perfect optical performance is what you seek then check out the 50 APO SL, which I really can't fault. It's a much better performer than the APO M.

?

[IkarusJohn]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:36 AM, Pierre68 said:

Hello everybody.

I just wanted to know what you guys would do. As a 50mm fan I have a 50mm f/1.2 AA Noctilux (latest), a 50mm f/1.4 Summilux, a Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar and a 50mm f/2.8 Elmar collapsible. I happen to have som cash available and two used lens showed up in my neighbourhood: A 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux and a 50mm f/2 APO Summicron. Both for about the same used price. So my question is if you had the same lens, which of those two would you like to add to your collection?

Thanks for your input

Pierre

Reflecting further on your opening post:

• you have a fast 50 (the f/1.2 Noct), but the f/0.95 version is a different beast.  If you can find it, there was a comparison between the F/1 and f/0.95 Noct in LFI, shortly after the f/0.95 was released.  This might be informative.
• the APO Summicron is very different again.  Not sure how it compares to the Sonnar and the Elmar you already have, but it is a lovely lens.  Small (if that’s your thing), and as close to perfection in an M mount as you can get.

What does this add?  Well, I guess the question is, what do you gain?  The f/1.2 Noct is a vintage lens, with vintage characteristics; the APO is modern - as modern as an M mount 50 gets; there is little to separate the Summilux you already have from the 0.95 Noct, save for the extra stop and a half.

You might end up with both, but I would start with the APO - it is different from what you already have.  Then sell the Elmar and the Sonnar, and put the money to an 0.95 Noct.  

[Kdnwg]

I would advise you to get 0.95 from an investment point of view. Noctilux is a currency. It always has. The first version of Noc is worth more than a used Toyota. Being 0.95 asph - it is the fastest Noc in Leica history. Wait till it stopped production and up it goes in value. There isn’t another great modern manual focus 0.95 Lens in town to compare against with a short flange distance. (7artisan 0.95 falls short in optics badly so I am not going bother to include as a comparable)
 

APO ASPH? I recall voigtlander has one and it is so so so close to Leica optics that most folks can’t tell the difference. It was the best 50mm when it came out but many lenses were made by others having this apo asph combo. 
 

furthermore Leica openly announced that their SL lenses are the optically most advanced to point. The Summilux ASPH SL already took over APO ASPH M In charts with autofocus. The summicron SL version of APO ASPH is more refined than M by miles ahead. 
 

So no longer is APO ASPH M anything special other than a nice Lens with small form factor and sharpness that a modern Sigma can beat easily. If you want the best optics from Leica in 2022 it isn’t it. If you want the fastest Len’s with worlds best optics - Noc is your answer. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kdnwg

[pedaes]

36 minutes ago, Kdnwg said:

The summicron SL version of APO ASPH is more refined than M by miles ahead. 

 Do you understand that a rangefinder lens has to be small  not to block the viewfinder? Do you personally have any experience of these two lenses?

Edited August 4, 2022 by pedaes

[a.noctilux]

Anyway, I can repeat this obvious sentence:

" there is NO best lens " as such only best lens for a JOB ( happily now, we can buy cheap lens, more expensive one and the most expensive one).

 

[Kdnwg]

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

 Do you understand that a rangefinder lens has to be small  not to block the viewfinder? Do you personally have any experience of these two lenses?

I have both lenses in question as well as SL APO ASPh and SL Lux , also the R lenses which I use on M bodies. I have them all because I can. But if I have to pick , it’s another question. 

you do know that even a Noc will obstruct the range finder view. The small size of M lenses is precisely the reason why it’s not optically best. I believe Leica has maximised what they can do in this small form factor but when we talk about APO ASPH 50mm M like it is the reference lens to choose over Noc - sorry it isn’t. For the price, and what you get , Noc is the better purchase. 
 

 

[pedaes]

3 hours ago, Kdnwg said:

Noc is the better purchase. 

In your view. You talk in absolutes. IMHO (note humble opinion) the Noctilux is not an everyday lens, and is only of benefit if used wide open, and few, IMHO again, can use it wide open with ease. It holds zero advantage over a Summilux at f1.4, or a Summicron at f2. And as you correctly say, you have viewfinder blockage to cope with.

I see this is your third post - with all that gear where have you been? Let's see some of your Nocti images, please.

[IkarusJohn]

8 hours ago, Kdnwg said:

… when we talk about APO ASPH 50mm M like it is the reference lens to choose over Noc - sorry it isn’t … 

 

 

I agree that the SL 50 primes are better than the M primes (having had the SL Summilux), but we’re discussing M 50 primes.  I disagree that the Noct is a better buy in absolute terms than the APO Summicron.  It all depends on your needs and priorities.  In optical terms, the APO is undoubtedly the best 50 in M mount (and is close to the SL version), but it is “only” f/2 - if the additional stops matter, then the Summilux or Noctilux are better choices, but those additional stops come at a price (not just in dollars).

[Pierre68]

A little update. The Noctilux in the local shop was collecting dust on the used gear shelf... So I bought it 🙂

It will be easier to focus on the SL2-S using Live View with focus peaking. But I am sure I will learn to master it on the M10R also. Lots of fun to come

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, Pierre68 said:

A little update. The Noctilux in the local shop was collecting dust on the used gear shelf... So I bought it 🙂

It will be easier to focus on the SL2-S using Live View with focus peaking. But I am sure I will learn to master it on the M10R also. Lots of fun to come

the one thing that encourage me to get the noctilux first time years back was when i paired it with original SL at local leica store, and see how easy it was focusing with liveview, however as time goes by, RF has not been a problem whatsoever, so i guess, you r on the right track too!

[Pierre68]

2 minutes ago, jakontil said:

the one thing that encourage me to get the noctilux first time years back was when i paired it with original SL at local leica store, and see how easy it was focusing with liveview, however as time goes by, RF has not been a problem whatsoever, so i guess, you r on the right track too!

Glad to see you went down the same road 😉