Purchase an M11 or an M10-R…?

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M10 for conservatives, M11 for progressives, Leica knows its customers well.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've tried M11 on the day it came out and did not bond with it.  I keep M10R and M10M, they make sense as a system, and do exactly what they are expected to do.  Silent shutters.  Baseplates.  Solid brass.  Interchangeable.  No idea why one would upgrade from M10M to M11M as the performance of M10M is already superb.  But perhaps I'm just getting conservative -- not upgrading from Q2 to Q3, not upgrading from SL2 to SL3.  My last addition was X2D which is so awesome it satisfies ultimate IQ ideals, so Leicas are for fun and enjoyment with excellent IQ.  But for the ultimate dynamic range and quality I'd just reach for X2D.  I'll wait for M11P and better yet M11D to reassess.

This makes the most sense to me. You either bond with a camera or you don’t. A Leica is an emotional purchase.

I did bond with the M11. And so have upgraded from my M10R and M10M to the M11 variants. It wasn’t the resolution. And before release I didn’t like the idea of losing the baseplates. But I was instantly won over. I’m not going to say the M11 is a better camera. Just that it’s better for me. Sure there’s a difference between 42 and 60MP. But even as someone who does print at the sizes you’d see any differences, for most applications, there isn’t. I like the camera upgrades. USBC charging and downloading. All day battery life. Internal memory. Better EVF usage for my WATE and 135.

My M11’s a fab. But so are my M10R and M. The image quality I get hasn’t changed because really that’s up to me.

And I also know that either aren’t like the X2D, if you’re really chasing the technical stuff.

Gordon

[setuporg]

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

My M11’s a fab. But so are my M10R and M. The image quality I get hasn’t changed because really that’s up to me.

Exactly!  Also forgot to mention, not upgrading from S 007 to S3.  "Eleven and Three -- not for me!":)

Agree on the difference in look between Hasselblad and Leica, it's just that 100mp obviates the race between 40mp and 60mp and one can focus again on the innate Leica qualities.

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

And I also know that either aren’t like the X2D, if you’re really chasing the technical stuff.

Edited May 30, 2023 by setuporg

[didier]

10 hours ago, setuporg said:

I'll wait for (…) M11D to reassess.

+1

back to basics  

[Jon Warwick]

3 hours ago, setuporg said:

Exactly!  Also forgot to mention, not upgrading from S 007 to S3.  "Eleven and Three -- not for me!":)

Agree on the difference in look between Hasselblad and Leica, it's just that 100mp obviates the race between 40mp and 60mp and one can focus again on the innate Leica qualities.

Pleased to hear the X2D is going well for you!

I’m curious if you or Flash have directly compared the output of the X2D to the GFX100(S)?

From what I read, some say the colors and relatively soft contrast of X2D files are rather lovely, but presumably that can be matched by tinkering with the GFX files?

….And/or is there a sufficiently different rendering of the lenses themselves that means there is still always a difference in the look of the printed output between the 2 systems? 

[setuporg]

1 minute ago, Jon Warwick said:

I’m curious if you or Flash have directly compared the output of the X2D to the GFX100(S)?

Never got the GFX, thank goodness believed the X2D will come.:). I know Flash has both and has use cases for both, especially by lenses.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

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18 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Pleased to hear the X2D is going well for you!

I’m curious if you or Flash have directly compared the output of the X2D to the GFX100(S)?

From what I read, some say the colors and relatively soft contrast of X2D files are rather lovely, but presumably that can be matched by tinkering with the GFX files?

….And/or is there a sufficiently different rendering of the lenses themselves that means there is still always a difference in the look of the printed output between the 2 systems? 

I have both systems. *If* Hasselblad would make me a wide zoom I'd not use the GFX again. And I'd not say no to a 70-200 f4.5 either.

The GFX is a much more full featured set up. And the firmware is there and mature. If you want the crop modes or basic eye detect then Fujifilm has you covered. I REALLY like the 20-35. Generally the GFX focuses faster. There are more lenses that are PDAF ready. The HB 38, 55, 80 and zoom are about the same. Fujis is faster with the rest. The Fuji has a joystick (not a great one though) which is better for left eye shooters than the HB touchpad implementation. For right eyed shooters the touchpad works brilliantly. The Fuji flip screen is better. There's a cheap remote release available.

For the X2D the menu structure is the best on the market. The viewfinder is sublime. The Fujis is below average, which is a shame and actually a big reason I don't get on with the system as much. HB's IBIS is stops better. Better than most 24x36mm systems. The leaf shutters also help here. The build is better. I love the position of the buttons, especially the playback, which is where it should be. The manual focus on the new lenses is fantastic and usable for stuff like landscapes and even portraits. The grip and camera handling are the best on the market bar none. The long exposure implementation on the Hasselblad is the best on the market. The 55V is my current favourite lens. Possibly of all time. The 38 is as good but I get on with the 55 field of view.

Both system make incredible files. I *prefer* the HB colours. I don't think there's anything better. Each camera is calibrated so no you can't just get an exact match in post with a one step profile. But Fujis are no slouch and you do get the simulations. HB don't even offer a b&w jpeg on any of their cameras. I don't think that image quality is a reason to choose one over the other, even though I prefer the Hasselblad files by some margin. Obviously the Fuji is vastly cheaper. More so the more lenses you add. But for me, the X2D's handling, lenses and X factor make is an easy choice for me, even with basically beta level firmware. If/when Hasselblad get their shit together and get the updates rumoured out, it'll be an even easier choice.

Took my X2D to Italy for three weeks. Loved it and got some great files. But I did miss my M11 Monochrom. Currently schlepping that around with a MATE on the front as my daily carry. It and the X2D could really be my only cameras....

Gordon

[Jon Warwick]

4 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I have both systems. *If* Hasselblad would make me a wide zoom I'd not use the GFX again. And I'd not say no to a 70-200 f4.5 either.

The GFX is a much more full featured set up. And the firmware is there and mature. If you want the crop modes or basic eye detect then Fujifilm has you covered. I REALLY like the 20-35. Generally the GFX focuses faster. There are more lenses that are PDAF ready. The HB 38, 55, 80 and zoom are about the same. Fujis is faster with the rest. The Fuji has a joystick (not a great one though) which is better for left eye shooters than the HB touchpad implementation. For right eyed shooters the touchpad works brilliantly. The Fuji flip screen is better. There's a cheap remote release available.

For the X2D the menu structure is the best on the market. The viewfinder is sublime. The Fujis is below average, which is a shame and actually a big reason I don't get on with the system as much. HB's IBIS is stops better. Better than most 24x36mm systems. The leaf shutters also help here. The build is better. I love the position of the buttons, especially the playback, which is where it should be. The manual focus on the new lenses is fantastic and usable for stuff like landscapes and even portraits. The grip and camera handling are the best on the market bar none. The long exposure implementation on the Hasselblad is the best on the market. The 55V is my current favourite lens. Possibly of all time. The 38 is as good but I get on with the 55 field of view.

Both system make incredible files. I *prefer* the HB colours. I don't think there's anything better. Each camera is calibrated so no you can't just get an exact match in post with a one step profile. But Fujis are no slouch and you do get the simulations. HB don't even offer a b&w jpeg on any of their cameras. I don't think that image quality is a reason to choose one over the other, even though I prefer the Hasselblad files by some margin. Obviously the Fuji is vastly cheaper. More so the more lenses you add. But for me, the X2D's handling, lenses and X factor make is an easy choice for me, even with basically beta level firmware. If/when Hasselblad get their shit together and get the updates rumoured out, it'll be an even easier choice.

Took my X2D to Italy for three weeks. Loved it and got some great files. But I did miss my M11 Monochrom. Currently schlepping that around with a MATE on the front as my daily carry. It and the X2D could really be my only cameras....

Gordon

Many thanks for such a comprehensive, balanced and hence helpful reply. It is much appreciated. 

I noted your comment re your M11 Monochrom and X2D could really be your only cameras. I've also landed at using medium format digital for color images (I would find it hard to go back to color full frame now), pairing it with a Monochrom that I personally think remains unparalleled for B&W (for me, it's not so much the resolution benefit from the lack of color filter array, but more to do with the naturalness / texture / tonality of the rendering in printed output that is achieved by the Monochrom sensor).

[BigBabyEarl]

Funny, I came here because I saw the black paint M10R and wanted to see if after some time there was some merit to staying with the older system. I had the M11 and have the M11M and I completely love the latter so much. For color I have the SL2S, GFX100s, and Z9. I have narrowed it down the M11M and 99% SL2S with the 35 APO SL prime, but the temptation to just roll M11M and X2D is very high. Medium format in a compact body definitely has the best colors (even Leica S although that's kinda big etc etc). My only hesitation is the fear that when the SL3 comes out or Fuji answers back (believe me they will) I'll regret it. The X2D in hand is truly beautiful, like an Mamiya 7II simple. I guess the answer I came here for is yes to everything as usual. But two cameras- one color, one b&w sounds perfect... and then there's film.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

1 hour ago, BigBabyEarl said:

Funny, I came here because I saw the black paint M10R and wanted to see if after some time there was some merit to staying with the older system. I had the M11 and have the M11M and I completely love the latter so much. For color I have the SL2S, GFX100s, and Z9. I have narrowed it down the M11M and 99% SL2S with the 35 APO SL prime, but the temptation to just roll M11M and X2D is very high. Medium format in a compact body definitely has the best colors (even Leica S although that's kinda big etc etc). My only hesitation is the fear that when the SL3 comes out or Fuji answers back (believe me they will) I'll regret it. The X2D in hand is truly beautiful, like an Mamiya 7II simple. I guess the answer I came here for is yes to everything as usual. But two cameras- one color, one b&w sounds perfect... and then there's film.

My film days are over. But if they weren’t it’d certainly be an XPan. Zero doubt about that. I do have an R4 but have only put a few rolls through it. I do use the lenses though. The XPan was a huge amount of fun. I had all three lenses and never wanted for anything more. For film I have little interest in 24x36 since there are so many incredible digital options. It’d have to be something interesting and different. And challenging. I get why the M6 revival (new and old) is so big on the inter webs right now. But since I already have both the best colour and b&w 24x36 cameras (M11’s) for me I’m not going there.

If I had a new version of the WATE, I’d for sure use the M11 more. I love it with primes but this would push me over the edge. I DO love the M11 and I do use it. But it does compete with the X2D. And the new firmware for the X2D dropped last night. Now I kind of have a digital XPan. The XPan crop is 50.1MP. The 21, 30 and 55/65 give approximately the same angle of view as well.

The next GFX and the SL3 will come. So will the XPro4. I don’t know how many I’ll be able to resist. But whatever, it’s a great time to be a photographer.

Gordon