M11 Colorless/magenta patches

[Sean Conaty]

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Previous M10-R owner, just recently purchased M11.

Having a lot of color issues with the camera, but the problem I've noticed most is the following: I'm getting areas of de/low/no saturation (occasionally takes on a magenta cast). Happens considerably worse in High ISO and/or mixed color temp situations, but happens also at ISO 64 at midday. It's visible on DNG even before bringing into LR.

 

Attached image is low res JPEGs exported from Preview of the DNG. As you can imagine, when I try to put any color treatment on it in LR (Adobe Standard, Profile M11, etc), the problem is exacerbated and can't be corrected.

 

Shot at 2500 ISO @ 30MP

 

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Edited March 4, 2022 by Sean Conaty

[jaapv]

The image is exceedingly underexposed, probably caused by the bright highlights. That causes the excessive noise, and the Green channel has dropped below the noise floor in places, causing the camera to fill in the detail from the remaining channels. If you expose more liberally (consult the histogram!) the problem will disappear. If You want to correct the issue to save the image, use the colour replacement brush.

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[Sean Conaty]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

The image is exceedingly underexposed, probably caused by the bright highlights. That causes the excessive noise, and the Green channel has dropped below the noise floor in places, causing the camera to fill in the detail from the remaining channels. If you expose more liberally (consult the histogram!) the problem will disappear. If You want to correct the issue to save the image, use the colour replacement brush.

That was my first thought too (underexposure), but it's happening here as well in a much more evenly/properly exposed image. See the water spots, especially on the right side

ISO 64 @ 36 MP

And in the hair/forehead

ISO 3200 @ 60 MP

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[ianforber]

I use Capture One rather than LR. I took a few shots recently of a small lake in the sunshine, which had a lot of specular highlights on the water ripples. When looking at the DNG and JPEG thumbnails before actually clicking on one to bring up the file, there’s is no colour cast on the JPEG but a very distinct magenta cast on the DNG thumbnail. When I click on it and it brings up the full size file, the magenta disappears almost (but not quite) instantly. I assume this is Capture One applying the correct colour profile, but I’m no expert so stand to be corrected. I’m using the M11 ProStandard profile

[jaapv]

Water ripples is different That is Chromatic aberration.

[ianforber]

Just now, jaapv said:

Water ripples is different That is Chromatic aberration.

Ah. You’re right - schoolboy mistake on my part!

[Photoworks]

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that looks like a Lightroom profile issue in the 2nd pix. One they adobe will come out whit a final version.
M10-R in the beginning had many color issues before the final profile came out. There was nothing wrong with the camera..

In the first image I feel the same. I would try the 30 demo of Capture one and see it it looks the same.
In addition you can have a light reflection on baby head from the mirror lights. Are you using a filter on your lens?

[GLC]

Update Lightroom and all will be fixed.  I noticed this same problem 

[Sean Conaty]

On 3/5/2022 at 7:09 AM, GLC said:

Update Lightroom and all will be fixed.  I noticed this same problem 

Tried it with both most current version of Lightroom as well as Capture One and same issue.

Here's another example shot at 2000 ISO @ 60 MP. See the woman's hair and the wall patch in the top right corner. First image is in Preview, second image is in Capture One with zero adjustments.

 

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Edited March 7, 2022 by Sean Conaty
updated w/ Capture One image

[Photoworks]

It think you have a mixed lighting situation, Window is blue and the kitchen overhead is warm with lots of green. You take green out and it becomes magenta.

I would change the bulb in the kitchen! and to it again .

[opera207]

My sl2-s had the same problem which I hate, so I sold it, now I have inner peace.

Video of sl2-s suffered the problem too, that's unacceptable!

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by opera207

[Guest]

To get to the bottom of the issue if it's the camera or currently available raw converters, I would use RawDigger - https://www.rawdigger.com/

This tool gives you a 1:1 view into the actual raw file (with different ways to render) without all the other things that a photo editing app such as C1 or LR would always apply to make your pictures look better. Just use the free trial and see if you can gather additional insights? It would suck if this is actually a hardware/sensor issue ...

[Sean Conaty]

Some interesting data points to try to diagnose the problem:

 

-The White Balance on nearly everything that's coming into Lightroom registers 'As Shot' with around +20 Magenta tint. Correcting back to zero improves (but doesn't completely solve) the issue a bit but may indicate a problem with the AWB in the camera.

 

-Even the most minor HSL corrections greatly exacerbates the issue, in magentas especially. Banding, desaturation, gaps in color vs. smooth transitions.

 

-Getting excessive amounts of magenta overall (in the shadows especially) & really blotchy/veiny skin. In my experience, this can be caused by IR pollution. Never had this issue on M10-R

 

Saw that some other users had this unique issue with M10-R

and M9

 

[LeicaMark]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:27 AM, Sean Conaty said:

Some interesting data points to try to diagnose the problem:

 

-The White Balance on nearly everything that's coming into Lightroom registers 'As Shot' with around +20 Magenta tint. Correcting back to zero improves (but doesn't completely solve) the issue a bit but may indicate a problem with the AWB in the camera.

 

-Even the most minor HSL corrections greatly exacerbates the issue, in magentas especially. Banding, desaturation, gaps in color vs. smooth transitions.

 

-Getting excessive amounts of magenta overall (in the shadows especially) & really blotchy/veiny skin. In my experience, this can be caused by IR pollution. Never had this issue on M10-R

 

Saw that some other users had this unique issue with M10-R

and M9

 

I know this post is a few months old, but these data points are very much what I am finding as well.

I have also followed MZBE's advice and downloaded Rawdigger (which I am going to absolutely pay for after the trial. Fantastic.)

My raw sensor data does not produce the patchy magenta tint / cast that I find in LR, PS, C1, and Apple's Raw Converter. 

I am unsure now if the magenta tint issue is something on Leica's end or on the various Raw converter's end. I don't think all M11 owners have the magenta issue it seems.

Going to research further and find a workflow that works hopefully.

[Adam Bonn]

C1 and Adobe use different image pipelines, with adobe (and Leica RAWs) we get three different ways to start editing the image (the Leica profile, the adobe standard one and one of the adobe color, landscape, etc profiles) The two adobe options share the same mechanism for generating WB colours from un-white-balanced data, but the Leica profile uses a different set of values.

If the magenta issue is always present across different RAW apps then the problem will be with the camera's FW. IIRC (...... I'm getting on a bit) Leica have tweaked yellow and or red bias in FW updates from previous cameras, like the 240 and M10 so it might take a FW update to resolve it...

Without boring anyone senseless... when an image is taken there's a tag in the DNG (AsShotNeutral) that adobe uses (and probably C1, but don't quote me on that) to commence the maths that ends in (say) K 4750 and Tint +8 (or whatever) that appears as "As Shot' for the WB value in LR/PS.

Leica can tweak the internal camera maths that produces the DNG tag. Adobe/C1 cannot. 

 

[sdk]

Sean, the magenta patches all look like examples of lens flare to me. What lens are these shot with? Some Leica lenses do this when shooting towards strong light sources. I used to experience even worse flare with my 35mm/1.4 Summilux ASPH and 28mm/2 Summicron ASPH back in the days I shot film.

There are some very resistant lenses for M mount now, including the 28mm/2.8 ASPH, and the Zeiss 35mm/1.4 Distagon ZM (or any of the Zeiss ZM lenses that I have used really).

[SiggiGun]

For me the "Magenta" issue is relatively new with the M11 in LR. I had no problems last year. If I use the Adope "standardc profile the problem is less visible. 

I decided to try C1 instead of LR. 

[sdk]

I use X-rite Color Checker Passport 2 and the Calibrate (formerly Xrite) ColorChecker Camera Calibration, via its Lightroom export plugin, to make profiles for all my digital cameras. With this I get more accurate color than the LR standard Leica M11 profile, and I have not seen any colored highlight issues in any of the shots I took with either. I have not used the Adobe Standard profile for processing in years. Camera ICC calibration is well worth doing if you are serious about color photography. I actually have 3 profiles for my M11 one for Zeiss lenses, one for Voigtlander lenses, and another for Leica lenses. You can also build dual illuminant profiles by shooting the CC Passport target in daylight and tungsten light (or any two very different types of lighting), which are great for many shooting situations.