Rangefinder patch position

[markielinhart]

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A question, should the M rangefinder patch be in the diagonal centre within the framelines of the moment?

I'm asking this because when switching from landscape to portrait pov my images are often off centre…

M8 user thanks you in advance✌️

[mujk]

Yes, in relation to the framelines in the viewfinder. And it should move together with the framelines for parallax compensation. However, the framelines themselves have limited accuracy, which is also dependent on focusing distance. There should be several forum threads on this topic and there is also something mentioned in the manual.

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[adan]

With the 50mm frames especially, it is easy to miscompose because they are missing a lot of the "bottom line" in landscape mode (left or right side in vertical mode, depending on which way you hold the camera for verticals.

With the big gap there, it is very easy for the eye to be tricked, and use the red digital meter readout to define the picture edge instead. Which it won't, for the 50. I end up aiming too far to the left (or "up").

Now that I am getting used to a 50 on the M, after 40-odd years never using one, I get better-centered pictures by using the included (and complete) 75 lines when aiming and centering verticals, checking the 50 simultaneously for gross framing.

BTW - I have always considered the Leica M viewfinder as an "aiming device" rather than a "framing device."

Used the RF patch on my M8 (which had no 135mm framelines) to "point" a 135 at the subject, and always got things centered and without cutoffs.

 

[mujk]

It is also good to remember other implications of the viewfinder and the lens looking at the scene from slightly different positions. Parallax compensation in the finder attempts to compensate for the framing difference caused by this, but it cannot compensate for the difference in how objects at different distances are seen in relation to each other. For example, if you attempt to hide a distant bright source of light behind a narrow object nearby (like the sun behind the trunk of a tree), it will not necessarily work as expected unless you take into account this difference in position.

[jaapv]

Another interesting aspect is that the parallax compensation of the framelines is in the plane of focus only. That means that  there may be objects visible or hidden in front or behind the plane that will or will not show up in the photograph.

Quick rough sketch.  
 

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[fotografr]

17 hours ago, adan said:

With the 50mm frames especially, it is easy to miscompose because they are missing a lot of the "bottom line" in landscape mode (left or right side in vertical mode, depending on which way you hold the camera for verticals.

With the big gap there, it is very easy for the eye to be tricked, and use the red digital meter readout to define the picture edge instead. Which it won't, for the 50. I end up aiming too far to the left (or "up").

Now that I am getting used to a 50 on the M, after 40-odd years never using one, I get better-centered pictures by using the included (and complete) 75 lines when aiming and centering verticals, checking the 50 simultaneously for gross framing.

BTW - I have always considered the Leica M viewfinder as an "aiming device" rather than a "framing device."

Used the RF patch on my M8 (which had no 135mm framelines) to "point" a 135 at the subject, and always got things centered and without cutoffs.

 

This doesn't jive with what I'm seeing. I have my M10M in my hand with a 50mm Summilux attached. I can very clearly see all four frame lines with room to spare outside of them--including the bottom. 

[adan]

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Four lines....or three lines plus two little unconnected tick-marks? 😉

This is what I often perceive, depending on what the auto-brightness of the frameline illumination LED is doing, and the scene brightness.

Except that the exposure LED indicator is about 4 times as bright and intense as rendered here (limitation of digital color spaces).

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[fotografr]

Okay, I see what you mean. I've been shooting M cameras for so long that my brain "completes" the line. 

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 3/5/2024 at 5:25 AM, markielinhart said:

A question, should the M rangefinder patch be in the diagonal centre within the framelines of the moment?

I'm asking this because when switching from landscape to portrait pov my images are often off centre…

M8 user thanks you in advance✌️

Hello Markie,

Welcome to the Forum.

When I look thru the range/viewfinder window of my later M3 the properly aligned rangefinder patch & rangefinder patch follower both sit a little above the center of a vertical mid-line for the lens frames. As they do in the range/viewfinder explanatory photos in the M3 instruction manual.

This means, if a person rotates the camera counter clockwise to take a portrait & uses the correctly focused rangefinder patches to center the subject: The subject will appear a little to the left of center in the finished photo.

If the camera is rotated clockwise to frame in a vertical manner & the subject is centered using the correctly focused rangefinder patches: The image will appear a little to the right in the finished photo.

What I do is:

Visualize the photo.

Then, frame the image. Using the frame lines. Moving myself or the camera/lens as necessary to compose.

Then focus.

Then frame again, using frame lines.

Then take the photo.

Keeping in mind that I do as much photography as possible with a tripod, large ball head & a cable release.

Which I find significantly improves the composition & the quality of my photos.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited March 8 by Michael Geschlecht

[markielinhart]

A very comprehensive response Michael, thank you.

Having used an adapted vintage lens to date I ‘see’ why I had problems. However I now have a 21mm Voightländer Colour Skopa to use and it’s changed everything! The framelines have seemingly snapped into place.

I still have to allow for the lens being off to one side as it were in a vertical camera position but as a quite ancient but leica newbie photographer I just love it.

Thanks to you all for your help…✌️