Leica M12 -- your next camera?

[hirohhhh]

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All I want in M12 is IBIS and GPS without need for an app.

[jgeenen]

All this electronic „Schnickschnack“ (german for gimmicks) will come automatically - sooner or later. Therefore my only wish would be a truly modernized rangefinder with selectable magnifications for better focusing and a wide field view for 21mm or wider, improved display controls and electronic framelines that match the attached lens). If that comes at a cost (eg. different body design) - so what?

[MT0227]

 

• Multi OVF Magnifiaction Options  - 0.85, 0.58
• Integrated GPS
• IBIS
• More dynamic range with less noise, why not - not that the M11 is bad
• No Video, No EVF - SL is your friend
• Lets keep the M an M

[lct]

Almost two years since the opening post. The M11 has now met all my expectations, more or less, i got used to its stapler sound but i still miss what i could do with all my Ms since the M3: slower shutter speeds than 1/(f)s when shooting handheld. IBIS is then all i need in the M12. Video would be welcome as a bonus but i don't want a fat or a hot M12 in any way and i have a Sony and a digital CL let alone my good old M240 for that. I still keep my dreams for an EVF-M which could be, at last, the perfect M camera... Oops sorry for the typo folks, i meant the perfect M-mount camera... But we all know it means the same don't we 😄

Edited December 28, 2023 by lct

[Stef63]

8 hours ago, lct said:

… i still miss what i could do with all my Ms since the M3: slower shutter speeds than 1/(f)s when shooting handheld. IBIS is then all i need in the M12.

+1
Would be the perfect M12 (and please remove as much techno “nanny’s” like dust protection… or burry them deep in the menus and turn them off by default)

Oh, and one more thing… remove the SD card 😲. I didn’t use it in my M11 for nearly 2 years. And let's face it, since the M8, it's been the top complaint, causing confusion, alleged source of freezes, corrupt files, and controversy on the forum. We bid farewell to CD-ROMs and diskettes long ago in our computers; it's time to part with this outdated technology in our digital cameras as well. 

8 hours ago, lct said:

… i meant the perfect M-mount camera... But we all know it means the same don't we 😄

+1
It would serve as an ideal substitute for my SL2, especially since I exclusively use that camera with manual focus lenses. However, I value the electronic viewfinder for macro, long, wide, or non-RF coupled vintage lenses more than the Visoflex on the M.

 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Stef63 said:

+1
Would be the perfect M12 (and please remove as much techno “nanny’s” like dust protection… or burry them deep in the menus and turn them off by default)

 

A real ‘dust protection’ is one of the most needed improvements. I’m not aware of any other camera that has attracted as much sensor dust as my Leica M10/11.

I agree that the current firmware tweak doesn’t add value - I always turn off the camera when changing lenses. The M11 is still a dust magnet. E.g. Nikon Z8/9 with specialized ‘dust shield’ (mechanical barrier) are more promising.

Edited December 28, 2023 by mzbe

[jonoslack]

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erm

How about

Global shutter (so no mechanical shutter)

IBIS

longer . . . . . actually I realise that I could have fun here, but I probably shouldn't!

Happy New Year!

[lct]

I do appreciate the dust protection personally. Especially the fact that i can toggle it on and off at will since the good (to me) firmware update 2.0.2. YMMV

[algrove]

Yes an EVF M12 with a sensor just like the SL3.

[scroy]

I would love an airdrop feature vs fotos  , and integrated optical magnifiers for those of us with failing eyesight  

 

[Herr Barnack]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:52 AM, MT0227 said:

No Video, No EVF - SL is your friend

Lets keep the M an M

What @MT0227 said.

And no freezing up.

Edited April 6, 2024 by Herr Barnack

[Pekoni]

Love my M10. If the M12 comes with IBIS, video, more than 40MP, the cheaply curled chinese plastic charger wire, dusty eypiece, ridiculous price tag. Than.. than its bye,bye Leica for me. i am convinced its over for leica in five years from there.Hopefully Nikon steps in with a leica mount rangefinder build like a tank model.

[LeicaR10]

Herr Barnack,   First, it would be great if the M12 would simply work without bugs on day one.  Second, make a M12 that is easy to use, go back to the original M concept.  IMO, the M10s were the step in the right direction.  Third, make the M12 reliable like the M10s.  If not, I will keep using what works for me...M10-R, M10-M, SL2 and SL2-S.  Stable, reliable and easy to use in the field.  Last, Leica could cut the price by 25%+ if they stopped trying to make the M camera an Apple camera.   r/ Mark

Edited April 19, 2024 by LeicaR10

[PhoToad]

I would *only* buy an M12 if it has IBIS (not only for image stabilization but also for dust removal; the latter feature may be even more important) and, hopefully, video again. I wouldn't care if it would have the same dimensions as my trustworthy M-P(240). I don't care for high megapixel numbers. With me, the traditional rangefinder is fine; I wouldn't need EVF.

[Herr Barnack]

4 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Herr Barnack,   First, it would be great if the M12 would simply work without bugs on day one.  Second, make a M12 that is easy to use, go back to the original M concept.  IMO, the M10s were the step in the right direction.  Third, make the M12 reliable like the M10s.  If not, I will keep using what works for me...M10-R, M10-M, SL2 and SL2-S.  Stable, reliable and easy to use in the field.  Last, Leica could cut the price by 25%+ if they stopped trying to make the M camera an Apple camera.   r/ Mark

@LeicaR10  You are on the right track with your thoughts regarding the M12; hopefully the Pooh Bahs @Wetzlar will read and give serious consideration to your post. 

Regarding price, you are 10,000% correct - none of us want to pay what could easily end up being $9900 USD for a dysfunctional "MApple12." 

Edited April 19, 2024 by Herr Barnack

[bilbrown]

On 4/19/2024 at 3:46 AM, PhoToad said:

I would *only* buy an M12 if it has IBIS (not only for image stabilization but also for dust removal; the latter feature may be even more important) and, hopefully, video again. I wouldn't care if it would have the same dimensions as my trustworthy M-P(240). I don't care for high megapixel numbers. With me, the traditional rangefinder is fine; I wouldn't need EVF.

I don't know about the future M12, there is a lot to fix about the M11.

I think the Hybrid-EVF like the X-Pro/X-100 from Fuji is interesting. I think Leica will demand it be more elegant (as if Apple made it (j/k)). I also think this may be essential and how they are getting around the freeze issues with the shutter dynamics in the M11.

Yes SD cards and Mastro processor need upgrades and contribute to some of the M11 variants having issues, but it's really a design issue. Faulty logic by giving the M11, a complex engineering feat, too many moving parts! I want Leica to address this in the M12.

I will go on: I feel like my M11-P has issues (now more infrequent because I shoot the camera differently than I shot the M240 and M10 variants, or maybe I just don't shoot it). The M11 issues are related to how the camera was designed during the pandemic. I don't think they got as much testing as they should have and it shows. I think the HEART of the issue is because of how the shutter reveals the sensor for metering and how it relates to the shutter dynamics because it has to be focused with the RF. You remove this issue with either an EVF or a ERF (electronic rangefinder) and you might solve a lot of the hardware to software issues. Conversely, an electronic shutter with a GLOBAL shutter would work too. I think we will see how that works in the new Lumix S9 when it comes out later this month. I am waiting to see how that holds-up in the real world.

 

 

They will of course upgrade the user experience in software and give the M12 the Leicons like the SL3. That's fine. Works okay. Hardware is it:

I just want the faster processor, a QUIET mechanical SHUTTER that doesn't come up and faster start-up time. If that's impossible then I want a ES that is a GLOBAL SHUTTER - Hey, Leica, Sony has that 50MP global shutter, get your hands on it.

I don't need IBIS. I don't care if it has a rangefinder or an EVF or a ERF I don't care I don't care. I want all the good things about the M10-P and M11 combined and improved and add some fun stuff. 

 

Oh, and please. At least 15 stops of DR and 16 bit throughout (not 14 bit, 12bit or 8bit when you shoot faster or burst like the SL3).

[jdlaing]

Let’s just throw our hands up, run around in circles, and make it another me too mirrorless camera. That might work. If an Mount rangefinder camera and a dearth of M bayonet manual lenses isn’t technologically good enough for you it may be time to change cameras or brands.

[tappan]

Just make the M10-R a little better.
No more than 40MP.
I don't care about Imagine stabilization.
Faster start up time.
Internal memory.
Content Authenticity Initiative
PLEASE BIGGER BUFFER.
A little better battery.
That is all.
Mark

[Kiwimac]

The introduction of Ibis would require a much more robust battery. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

The thing is, M10-R cannot be made better. It is already the last classic digital M, up there in the M hall of fame with M9, the last classic CCD M.
I do have high hopes that the Wetzlar Chocolate Factory will put their thinking cap on and churn out a new crowd pleaser classic with M12.

In my book, every M, film and digital, is a classic.