M11 Monochrom is coming ?

[reaperman]

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

But their sales are doing really well and lots of younger photographers are using them!

I hope my Type 246 will last me a long time.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Chaemono]

If you do get the camera, update the firmware. 

[Chaemono]

One thing I noticed on build quality, and those who upgraded to the M11 from the M10 may already know this, but they finally fixed the spiel of the ISO wheel. Not that it bothers me when I press it down on the M10-P and the M10M, but it does move visibly on these cameras. I’d say the spiel on the M11M ISO wheel is not discernible.

[jonnyboy]

I don't get too much excited anymore about those releases now.. very predictable and pretty much just increasing megapixels. Not much of a 'wow' element if you ask me. I understand it's hard to replicate that excitement of the first Monochrom - in the end, it was the first one! But even the M246 was actually a pretty exciting camera.

Maybe they coming out too quick now, I dont know. 

I'm interested to see the used market for the M10 Mono now, that's what I'm interested now...

[jimmielx]

1 hour ago, reaperman said:

With every new release prices a constantly rising. The number of people willing or able to afford a new Leica is shrinking. In a few years Leica rangefinders will become a rich man's toy rather than a tool for photographers. I have been using Leica M's since 2008. I am kind of a Leica fan boy and I'm really worried about the future of Leica rangefinders. 

I wouldn’t worry. I got into Leica M about ten years ago. A new M has never been realistic for me, but I was able to get an M9 when the prices dropped right after the 240 was announced. Now the price of entry into a second hand digital M is much lower than it was back then. An M240 is very much less than my M9 cost me, I have even just recently managed to get an M246 (again significantly less than the M9 cost me) to go with it and feel that I have two really amazing cameras. Yes, they are not the latest, but neither is a slouch, both make really great images. Further to that there are many more lenses available now than there were - some really high performing options from Voigtlander in particular, which are less expensive than they were back then.

So I’d say that someone now who wanted to get a digital M would be able to do it for less than I did ten or so years ago. Don’t get me wrong, it is still a very significant investment, but for me it is one that I do not regret for a moment. 

[Jon Warwick]

8 hours ago, Chaemono said:

The images come out looking like the Mono 1, it seems. 

I never owned that Mono “1” camera but tried it out briefly. My gut feel, based on using the 246 and owning for a year the M10M, is you’re possibly right re the M11M after playing with a (very) few of its DNGs that I’ve seen online, the M11M seems a very good starting point in terms of fairly low contrast generically and with a heightened emphasis on the mid-tones?? I love my M10M, but I’d seldom want to add more contrast to the DNGs, and if anything typically try to tame down the contrast. Combined with the higher resolution of the M11M and possibly the more extensive emphasis on the mid-tones, the look to me seems a bit reminiscent of going up a film format - ie, the untouched DNGs off the M11M look “smoother” than I’m used to off my M10M? …… who knows, I will only be able to tell with a true A-B comparison, including playing with the files from both M11M and M10M in post to attempt to see how I can equalise where I want them to land.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Jon Warwick

[Lelmer]

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1 hour ago, jimmielx said:

...

. Don’t get me wrong, it is still a very significant investment, but for me it is one that I do not regret for a moment. 

If you are a professional, it could be an investment...otherwise, it's just a toy 😊

[sometimesmaybe]

2 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

I don't get too much excited anymore about those releases now.. very predictable and pretty much just increasing megapixels. Not much of a 'wow' element if you ask me. I understand it's hard to replicate that excitement of the first Monochrom - in the end, it was the first one! But even the M246 was actually a pretty exciting camera.

Maybe they coming out too quick now, I dont know. 

I'm interested to see the used market for the M10 Mono now, that's what I'm interested now...

the improvements are getting more incremental - more comfort of life updates.

as a portrait shooter i like the idea of:

1. a lower base ISO - shoot fast glass wide open in day time without a ND (i dont like using elec shutter due to banding in some lighting conditions)
2. the MP bump - when i muck up the framing and need to crop
3. better EVF - helps with focusing when using fast short tele lenses 

realistically for my use case, moving from m246 to m10m makes more sense.

are any m10m owners tempted by the generational upgrade?

[thrid]

On 4/11/2023 at 11:43 AM, Jacobjuul said:

15 stops on a 14 bit sensor, am I missing something?

My Alexa puts 14 stops into a 12 bit log file. 

[ymc226]

1 hour ago, sometimesmaybe said:

the improvements are getting more incremental - more comfort of life updates.

as a portrait shooter i like the idea of:

1. a lower base ISO - shoot fast glass wide open in day time without a ND (i dont like using elec shutter due to banding in some lighting conditions)
2. the MP bump - when i muck up the framing and need to crop
3. better EVF - helps with focusing when using fast short tele lenses 

realistically for my use case, moving from m246 to m10m makes more sense.

are any m10m owners tempted by the generational upgrade?

I just dropped off my M10M for consignment last week.  Didn't plan it that way, just too lazy to box it up and drop it off a year ago but I knew I wanted the M11M for the battery upgrade to match my M11, better viewfinder to assist with close up focusing of the 35 APO Cron, 35 FLE II and now the 50 ASPH II, and lack of baseplate so battery and SD card changes are simpler.  I could not make an argument for better picture taking as that rests with me . . .

[pgh]

7 hours ago, reaperman said:

With every new release prices a constantly rising. The number of people willing or able to afford a new Leica is shrinking. In a few years Leica rangefinders will become a rich man's toy rather than a tool for photographers. I have been using Leica M's since 2008. I am kind of a Leica fan boy and I'm really worried about the future of Leica rangefinders. 

Hate to break it to you but this has been the target market for years now. It is what it is. Probably the only way to survive but then you get silly things like the limited safari edition or gold plated lenses. Young people are using them, but mostly they’re spending their savings on a banged up m6 still. And I can’t knock that, it’s exactly what it did over ten years ago. I think Leica is doing well overall - whether or not they’re doing well with working photographers is another story. 

[James1975]

I picked mine up yesterday along with the new 50/1.4 (in silver). It is an absolute joy to use. Updated the firmare and started shooting. It's a monster in low light. Even at 12500 the images are sharp and clear and have a depth to them (they showed me some large prints in store taken with the M11M that included one shot at 60,000 ISO that I simply could not believe). The M11 felt a little precarious to me (freezing issues, connection issues etc). This feels like a Leica should. Solid, dependable, capable. Leads me to think that perhaps any past M11 issues were possible hardware related and not software issues and are now resolved. I have a lot more confidence in this setup than I did with my M11 (I'm aware that's a very subjective opinion).

The lens (my first 50mm) is extremely sharp and yet has real character. It is a joy to use.

 

Overall I am absolutely thrilled with this purchase.

 

(BTW all M11 accessories are perfectly compatible with the monochrom)

Edited April 14, 2023 by James1975

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Jon Warwick:

I never owned that Mono “1” camera but tried it out briefly. My gut feel, based on using the 246 and owning for a year the M10M, is you’re possibly right re the M11M after playing with a (very) few of its DNGs that I’ve seen online, the M11M seems a very good starting point in terms of fairly low contrast generically and with a heightened emphasis on the mid-tones?? I love my M10M, but I’d seldom want to add more contrast to the DNGs, and if anything typically try to tame down the contrast. Combined with the higher resolution of the M11M and possibly the more extensive emphasis on the mid-tones, the look to me seems a bit reminiscent of going up a film format - ie, the untouched DNGs off the M11M look “smoother” than I’m used to off my M10M? …… who knows, I will only be able to tell with a true A-B comparison, including playing with the files from both M11M and M10M in post to attempt to see how I can equalise where I want them to land.

I agree, it will be a better starting pont and the wider tonal range including the mid-tones is much more appealing to some. Those who say ‘screw the mid-tones in B&W photography’ can still use filters. Will see. I’ll try post some comparisons hopefully still today. 

[Chaemono]

It’s foggy like hell today. Let’s see what I can get. Not sure I want to change lenses for comparisons. 

[jimmielx]

11 hours ago, Lelmer said:

If you are a professional, it could be an investment...otherwise, it's just a toy 😊

Fair enough - 'investment' is a poor choice of word, implying a financial return. I will edit my original comment. (Too late, seems I can't edit the original anymore - I would swap the word 'investment' for 'outlay').

When I used the word, I was thinking about the return on the outlay in a different way - pleasure of using the cameras, and more importantly the pleasure derived from the resulting photographs.

If my cameras are toys, then I'm cool with that. So then are other objects I am fortunate to posses. I will still say to my five year old 'be careful with that, it's not a toy', but I look forward to the day that he pulls me up on it!

Edited April 14, 2023 by jimmielx

[AndrewLT]

18 hours ago, jonoslack said:

What is better than the M10M is the ability to pull quality details from the shadow areas.

I too really enjoyed @jonoslack’s M11M review.  Great work!  Sean Reid’s introductory piece is also excellent.  I’ll be interested to hear what @Overgaard has to say about it in due course, too.

I’ve taken the liberty of quoting this one particular sentence from this post from yesterday.  For me, the principal benefit of any monochrome camera is that it forces one to think in B&W (nothing at all novel in that thought, I just happen to believe it) but, if there is one technical feature of the M11M that I find attractive, it is the combination of detail recovery (from underexposed areas) and highlight-weighted metering.  I suppose this is, in part, a consequence of the amazing dynamic range.

I’m under no illusions that an M11M would suddenly make me anything more than an enthusiastic amateur and, having traded in my M246 when I bought an M11 last year (my first colour digital M) simply because I knew I would not have sufficient time to justify having both, for that same reason — as well as the rather eye-watering price — I would find it very difficult to justify an M11M to myself at the moment.  But there is nothing wrong with daydreaming …. 🤠

Andrew

[Chaemono]

I started another thread to compare M11M to M10M images.

[Jon Warwick]

On 4/13/2023 at 3:31 PM, Chaemono said:

It could be Jono’s processing. The M11M images look so creamy and the tones are so rich. I’m sure his M10M pictures would have looked equally good. I’ll do side by side comparisons and post the links to the DNGs. 

When I first read your comment, I wasn't sure at that stage if I agreed with your enthusiasm, but having tried out the M11M properly and played with many DNGs, I am more inclined to agree! The subtlety of the mid-tones is quite something, obviously the move from 40mp to 60mp is useful for higher resolution, but perhaps equally as important is it feels (to me) that the additional luminance data is adding an even greater tonal smoothness and dimensionality of the subject in larger prints.  It feels a little like going up a format in film (say) from 120 to 5x4 in terms of the smoother tonality IMHO.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Jon Warwick:

When I first read your comment, I wasn't sure at that stage if I agreed with your enthusiasm, but having tried out the M11M properly and played with many DNGs, I am more inclined to agree! The subtlety of the mid-tones is quite something, obviously the move from 40mp to 60mp is useful for higher resolution, but perhaps equally as important is it feels (to me) that the additional luminance data is adding an even greater tonal smoothness and dimensionality of the subject in larger prints.  It feels a little like going up a format in film (say) from 120 to 5x4 in terms of the smoother tonality IMHO.

I’m HSP. Looking at Jono’s pictures on my mobile phone, it was the first thing that struck me. Plus, I had done tons of comparisons between the M10 with the α7R III and Z7 using M lenses and was aware of the richness in color and gradual tonal transition of BSI sensors.