Survey: Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

[lct]

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Feel free to tweak that file (details in exif data): https://tinyurl.com/3udyjzbs

[Photoworks]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:23 PM, lct said:

Seems like blackout times are lower than i expected in e-shutter mode with Visoflex 2 but 12500 iso pics are more noisy than my A7r2's let alone A7s1's as i suspected. I'll pass for the M11 but a cleaner M11-S could interest me pending the EVF-M if any.

I have to try that , but I only have a7R3 and a7r4.

but in my experience Sony files become soft in high ISO, strong noise reduction that causes loss of color tones and sharpness.

 

[lct]

14 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

but in my experience Sony files become soft in high ISO, strong noise reduction that causes loss of color tones and sharpness.

Hard to find such softness in my file above but i'm not here to rain on others parade obviously. Just honest to say why i will pass for the M11. 

[Photoworks]

10 minutes ago, lct said:

Hard to find such softness in my file above but i'm not here to rain on others parade obviously. Just honest to say why i will pass for the M11. 

I can see it a little, if you zoom in to the green in the middle you can see some color missing.

but it is good if you are happy with you exiting camera , nothing wrong with that. I go the M11 for the stile of shooting more then the high iso option.

[lct]

40 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

but it is good if you are happy with you exiting camera , nothing wrong with that. I go the M11 for the stile of shooting more then the high iso option.

My old Sonys are not exiting  yet but i would prefer if they had an M mount and a sensor designed for M lenses certainly. I miss also the auto image magnification feature of my M240. Will be for the EVF-M hopefully but an M11-S could interest me in the meantime possibly. 

[paulsydaus]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:00 AM, LUF Admin said:

Quick poll right after the announcement:

Are you planning to buy the new Leica M11?

And:

What would most appeal to you about the Leica M11?

Looking forward to your comments!

Andreas

One option missing from the survey: Will you wait for M11-P?  I'm currently leaning towards that camp.

[Chun Wah LAM]

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On 1/13/2022 at 11:17 PM, criolf said:

No.

Looking at the presentations/hands-on of the M11, present Leica has lost its "shine" for me... It's not a Leica anymore - it's menus and resolution and touchscreen and rolling shutter and/and/and. What's the difference with the latest Sony/Canon/Nikon?

Before was - "are you seeing this? The people at Leica are crazy for introducing this to the market".

Now it has become... just a camera.

In addition,  premium products such as SL APO lens and Visoflex 2 should not come with cheap pouches.  Even the fancy camera boxes have gone. 

[db24fps]

I genuinely don't know whether I'll end up with an M11. I miss having an M, but my glasses make it difficult to comfortably use anything wider than a 50mm as I struggled with 35mm frame lines even on the M10p I owned. I like 50mm a lot, but sometimes I want to go that little bit wider. Consequently it's an enormous chunk of money for what would be a one camera one lens combination for me (and frankly, it's an enormous chunk of money even if I could comfortably match it with other focal lengths). The visoflex doesn't thrill me as a solution to my problem, and I'm not sure I'd join the chorus of those dreaming about an M with an internal EVF unless it were an EVF with extremely low latency.

So, were I to return to digital Ms it may perhaps be better to do so via way of a used M10 as the sensor in the 11 pushes the camera beyond what I can really justify, and honestly beyond what I feel I even need. I do like some of the other improvements though. A hypothetical M 11-S, same specs but with the SL2-S sensor or something similar, would be of more immediate appeal I think. 

[Jeff S]

49 minutes ago, db24fps said:

I genuinely don't know whether I'll end up with an M11. I miss having an M, but my glasses make it difficult to comfortably use anything wider than a 50mm as I struggled with 35mm frame lines even on the M10p I owned. I like 50mm a lot, but sometimes I want to go that little bit wider. Consequently it's an enormous chunk of money for what would be a one camera one lens combination for me (and frankly, it's an enormous chunk of money even if I could comfortably match it with other focal lengths). The visoflex doesn't thrill me as a solution to my problem, and I'm not sure I'd join the chorus of those dreaming about an M with an internal EVF unless it were an EVF with extremely low latency.

So, were I to return to digital Ms it may perhaps be better to do so via way of a used M10 as the sensor in the 11 pushes the camera beyond what I can really justify, and honestly beyond what I feel I even need. I do like some of the other improvements though. A hypothetical M 11-S, same specs but with the SL2-S sensor or something similar, would be of more immediate appeal I think. 

If you haven’t already tried, you might talk to a good optician about thin, flexible frames and thinner lenses, if your prescription allows.  I can see the 35mm frame lines on my M10 bodies (M11 has same VF) with glasses and a +.5 diopter.  I find also that with enough repetition using a lens, precise viewing is unnecessary as framing becomes second nature. RF viewing isn’t exactly precise anyway.  I can easily use a 28mm lens even without clear sight of the frame lines.

The more important issue is being able to see the focus patch (2m virtual distance), and your subject matter, clearly.

Jeff

[db24fps]

8 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

If you haven’t already tried, you might talk to a good optician about thin, flexible frames and thinner lenses, if your prescription allows.  I can see the 35mm frame lines on my M10 bodies (M11 has same VF) with glasses and a +.5 diopter.  I find also that with enough repetition using a lens, precise viewing is unnecessary as framing becomes second nature. RF viewing isn’t exactly precise anyway.  I can easily use a 28mm lens even without clear sight of the frame lines.

The more important issue is being able to see the focus patch (2m virtual distance), and your subject matter, clearly.

Jeff

 

I have gone with thin lenses in my frames for many years. Alas, 35mm just looked so cramped on the M10. I know contact lenses would change everything but I have a devil of a time messing with those (plus I actually like wearing glasses). It's a fair point about the RF framing accuracy though. I can see the 35mm lines, they're just right to the very edge of the frame for me and I have to move my head a little to hunt around to see them. Financially though, a Q2 or waiting for a Q3 is perhaps the road I should go down really, unless we do someday see an M11 with a lower mp sensor (I'd even welcome the return of the M-E which I'd love to see recycle M10 parts but have the M11 battery and USB-C. I've been very happy with 24mp ipast Ms and the SL2-S).

[Jeff S]

I hate contact lenses and need to wear prescription sunglasses to deal with light sensitivity, in addition to astigmatism and distance correction.  But none of that stops my love of using an M… for over 35 years now… always with RF only.

Jeff

[rsh]

I have 20/20 vision but I need reading glasses for anything close.  Close focusing is where I struggle with the rangefinder so I use the Visoflex.  A Diopter would be an option, but I would have to screw it on and screw it off and it would be easy to lose.  Ahh, the compromises we make as we age!!!

[harmen]

Coming from an M(240) which has a 0.68 viewfinder magnification, I also find that I struggle a little more with 28mm framelines on the M11.  I took my glasses off and put in contact lenses.  I still struggle a bit 🙄.  Luckily I do not mind.  Even with a 21mm lens, framing is not a concern, even when using film without an ability to quickly check the photo I just took.  Nonetheless a 0.58 M6 is a real convenience.  I can imagine it to be irritating if you do care about it more.

[peterinkingston]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:50 AM, adan said:

Sorry I can't give you both a "Laugh" and a "Thanks."

Your words will not be taken down and used against you in a Court of Law.

I still wish Leica (being innovative and oddball, and always ready to acquire our cash with accessories) would just create something like the image below - simple credit-card-sized LCD screen with a foot that slides into the hotshoe, and uses the EVF contacts. More elegant than a flip-out screen.

And totally optional and removable.

It is the one thing I miss from the old pro SLRs before digital. Even the regular LV LCD won't always work - unless one has a neck like a giraffe.

But I suspect Leica thinks FOTOS serves the same purpose (except for those of us who don't use smartphones, either )

(EDIT: Anyone got Stefan Daniel's or Janko's (?) email? PM is fine - for their privacy).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Does this contraption exist? It looks like a great idea.

Edited February 12, 2022 by peterinkingston
Sorry, wrong post, I couldn't find the reply button?

[peterinkingston]

On 1/28/2022 at 5:54 PM, SJH said:

Dear Forum - I have a problem, after reading all the reviews and then comments (plus shots) I now have a Silver M11 and love it ........ I only lasted 8 days and I have to put my hands up to confess and say I'm actually very pleased. Story of my life with Leica really!!

HI, and congratulations!
I am in London.  I have on on order and  have to wait 6 weeks! So someone must be buying them. 
 

[peterinkingston]

Hi Everyone, 

I ordered my M11 2 weeks ago. The delivery date is ages away, 25March! This is my first set of posts and hope to publish some pictures soon. 

I am an amateur, I've saved up for five years and now I am 58 this will be my last camera  

My father introduced me to his M3 when I was 7 years old and I fell in love with it. After a 25 years I've started to get back into it.

The low noise, long exposure times (over 16mins), 60Mp, longer battery life and internal memory are a big draw for me.

***

Lots of comments about about various things here but this is my10 penney's worth.

I have my reservations. This is meant to be a street camera and quick to use without fear of losing the shot to shake, I wish they had stopped at 30 to 40Mp with an improved sensor, or done some magic to stabilise the sensor. And...I like the removable bottom of the camera

Here is my journey, please skip to the end to see the questions if it bores you.

I have an M6 and a Fuji X100F.

I also have a bunch of old analogue m mount lenses, which I've used on digital cameras. I love their 'character'.  I haven't used them in a while so some of the focal lengths may be wrong: (28,35, 40, 75mm Voiglander), (24/4.5 &50/1.2 mm Zeiss), 50mmPentax SMC, (50mm Fujinon BMC) and my prized 35mm Summicron (which I am too scared to take out in case I scratch it).

I sold my Olympus epl-3 ages ago for about 10% of the price I paid. 

I sold my Fuji XT-1, because it was too fussy and it kept arguing with me. (All I want is full manual+AP). I sold my native X lenses because my manual analogue lenses produced better images. (lost 90% of what I paid for it)

I sold my filmVoigtlander Bessa 3R. That was sad, I rarely missed a shot and most were keepers. The components were  cheap, the film advance then later the film rewind lever snapped off.  (I get excited when I chase the shot or run out of film and need to change it quickly) (made some money)

I sold my M6TTL 0.58 after 5 years because the viewfinder was too dark and the wide view made it hard to focus; the subjects/objects were too small. (doubled my money)

I am selling my X100F. I've miss most of my shots because of the delay, too much rubbish in the viewfinder, it's a pig to use manually and it argues with me. (will loose money)

So my observation is that you dont loose money by buying a film camera.

I shoot film but less so nowadays. Hopefully the camera will outlive me, so depreciation is not an issue

 

But the M11 still is a lot of money so I have a big concern:

- Camera shake. I want to shoot street and landscape. I shoot at dawn and dusk and would like to shoot city night scenes places like bars, restaraunts, theatre etc and 60 minutes for astro photography.

I also have a question for someone with experience of the camera.

- If you use the camera on medium or low res output  (Ye old Pixel binning) does it effectively reduce the 'apparent' camera shake and blur because the pixels are combined and averaged out?

 

Thanks to everyone and hope you all get your cameras soon. 

 
 

Edited February 12, 2022 by peterinkingston
I gfot rid odf some Typos

[HansiMustermann]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb peterinkingston:

 

- If you use the camera on medium or low res output  (Ye old Pixel binning) does it effectively reduce the 'apparent' camera shake and blur because the pixels are combined and averaged out?

 

No. Shaking the camera means shaking the camera. No difference between 12, 36 or 60 MP. 

[ilfalo]

I think that at 60mp everything is more visible than 18. So if you shake the camera ( and they say in street is better 1/500 and more) you see it more at 60. 

[peterinkingston]

12 hours ago, HansiMustermann said:

No. Shaking the camera means shaking the camera. No difference between 12, 36 or 60 MP. 

Thanks for the feedback and not sure what to do now   

I found another thread here dedicated to shutter shock and posed the question.

 

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Hallo,

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[Dr Cron]

My answer: In short, possibly…

The much longer version...(!)

I have similar concerns to others, viz. street and landscape usage.  I won't print super large, but enjoy fine details that can be achieved with good printing techniques - rivalling my other (much) larger-format film cameras and my Nikon D800E.

I currently have two film Leicas, which are fantastic, but tend to be used for 'projects' rather than for taking with me all the time; the Nikon, with its 36mpx, was/is extraordinary, but I don't use it much now apart from summer macro and for film scanning (it’s not exactly an everyday walk-about or have-with-you camera).  I also want a camera that can shoot colour beyond ISO 1000 and use both my current Leica lenses.

I’m adding some further (edited) comments which I’ve also bunged into the chat on Matt Bentley-Walls’ considered YouTube video on this camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQUoHefA5V0&t=1s

Having grown rapidly to love the Leica system so much, and thus with an eagerness (when funds allow...!) to add a digital to the roster for versatility (a camera to actually keep on my person most of the time, inc. in low light, rather than for more special outings or photo-walks or projects), I too have absorbed the M11 hype.

 

I’m noting early-adopters who don’t seem to understand either flat files or critical sharpness, which is a bit frustrating.  The latter point seems especially pertinent to me: why have a system so renowned for the quality of its lenses and then need to adjust your shutter speed up to accommodate them (4x or even 5x focal  to make sure your pics are properly sharp???), with a camera that simply allows you to go up a stop or two of ISO, thus making the dynamic range advantage rather moot?   There may indeed be some M10 bargains (relatively speaking...!) to be found. The jury's still out, we'll see.

 

I’m not sold on the weaker aspects of the external re-design - I can live with the extra button on the top plate, given that this is on the M10D anyway,  but the line across from under the viewfinder window not going straight across as on previous models (the front top-plate has a kink now, seemingly to emphasise the size of the viewfinder from the front: just to remind you this is a rangefinder??)  mildly annoys me.  I don’t think I care about the lack of the base-plate, but the base design seems a bit lacking in design aesthetics (cf. the new box = visoflex) and even functionality (the tripod socket isn't really one at all, since you can't really use QR plates, but rather a plug for the new grip, extra £££ - a bit cynical).  The other thing about the battery charging functionality that bothers me slightly is the amount of time the camera's internals will be exposed when a battery is removed for charging, since there's no cover.  A half-case, or a spare battery, will resolve this issue, but, again, more £££; but I don't really want to be leaving the camera lying around without its battery in (even in a bag, particularly).

 

I do very much like the idea of the internal storage: using a card just to download files onto at the end of a month, for instance, a bit like waiting to send your films off to get developed or saving them for a session at home, a good way of replicating that delayed gratification/objectivity that comes with film, and finding the good stuff and becoming a better photographer with proper discipline. 

But overall, this seems verily a smorgasbord camera: something for everyone - rather lacking the confidence to give photographers only what they actually need because Leica trusts its users to be any good.  I'm assuming they'll not be bothering with a M11D version... Das wesentliche? wirklich?, I ask cynically...(!)

 

Of course, I say all of this knowing that street photographers like e.g. Matt Stuart seem to recommend shooting at 1/1000s for everything anyway. I tend to agree with all the thoughtful views I've read so far that the M11 is a camera that is *not quite* an entirely fully realised prospect - and agree with those who worry slightly what a fully realised one would be. I'm sure they understand that people shoot M cameras because they want ultimate simplicity, liberation by constraints. Who knows!  

All of these frustrations notwithstanding, this may still be my first digital Leica.  I like that I should be able to use my 50 DR Summicron properly on it (a chance I’m not entirely willing to risk on an M10), and the internal storage ought to be great; the highlights control is superb (but arguably shouldn't have been an issue on the original M10 anyway).  Other than the resolution (I don’t really see the point of buying a digital camera in 2022 with a lower resolution than the D800E I’ve had for 9 years already), I don’t really care for other new bells and whistles.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dr Cron